Protocol in public hide.

[Chas]

I have been passionate and interested in wildlife for as long as I can remember........about 52 years, I am 57. I do not claim to be an expert in anything but after a lifetime of taking note you do learn quite a lot. I have to say that I always try to avoid the twitching experience where there is usually a crowd which to me is totally alien to the quiet wildlife experience. I really can not abide what used to be called the green wellie brigade so I normally keep well away.
Late last year I did "crack" and with some trepidation made a visit to Bowling Green Marsh hide in Topsham Devon as there had been reports of a few birds that I quite fancied having a look at. When I had been there for 10 minutes or so I engaged in conversation about the various birds in front of the hide, the couple there with me were interested but knew nothing about ID so I was trying to help. After a while we were joined by a another couple armed with the Green Wellies and all the gear who prompty said "Would you shut up talking, I am trying to watch the birds" I was horified and promptly left followed by the couple, So what is the protocol was he in the right, was I wrong to speak, or was he the pretentious ignorant xxxxxxx that I think he was. Incidentally there was absolutely no disturbance to the birds who were very relaxed and restful as you would expect. Oh, and I havn't been back since!!!!

[naturelover]

Hi chas welcome to the site,if you want my opinion he was just a misrable human ( cant use bad words on here )but you know what i mean,have fun on here anyway.

[mh68]

Mindless chatter, or speaking so loudly to disturb the birds is one thing, but helping someone in the way you were, and quietly too, seems perfectly acceptable to me. Sadly some people seem to think they own the hide, I would have left too, so totally with you on this.

Mark H

[NickCantle]

I'd have done the same thing too. I'd have probably uttered some choice words on my way out too

[diapasonbill]

Hi Chas, and everone else,

I am no expert at bird ID and one of the things I love is the number of people who are willing to talk and advise if you are unsure what you can see (or hear) when in a hide.
So please do not let someone like that put you off helping others.

Bill.

[Dan Salter]

I agree with the others. As you have told us you were talking 'birds' and helping others with id then as far as im concerned that is fine, it helps me sometimes and i have also helped others...but...had you been harping on loudly about trevors new house extension or your sons new job in insurance i would also have told you to shut up .....probably.
I think there is a certain etiquette (spelling?) and sometimes people in hides have no clue and can be irritating...but if your talking 'birds' and at a sensible level then i think its fine? infact a little bit of banter or chat , say if a friend just arrived in the hide then thats ok too as long as you dont waffle on for hours.
p.s...i own green wellies?...infact everything i wear tends to be green these days. ha ha

[willing to learn]

Originally Posted by Chas

or was he the pretentious ignorant xxxxxxx that I think he was.

Spot on, Some folks just got no manners or respect for others, Well done for not getting into a slanging match.
Regards
Colin

[gfilmsuk]

Hi Chas
You did the right thing by walking out, I think I would have done the same.
Oh by the way, I'm leaving my 'greens' at home from now on.
Dave

[LoveT]

Quote:

After a while we were joined by a another couple armed with the Green Wellies and all the gear who prompty said "Would you shut up talking, I am trying to watch the birds".

Odd - I thought you used your eyes to watch the birds, not your ears

I'm not surprised you were horrified - I would have been too.

On the other hand (or am I being snobby?), my pet hate are those 'people' who visit places such as the Hawk Conservancy (one of my favourite haunts) and proceed to wander round the entire site with their mobile phone glued to their ear, talking loudly and totally ignoring the birds they pass on their way. They then look most annoyed because they have to turn the thing off while a display is in progress. Why do they bother going in the first place?

Ok - I'm off my soapbox now!

Thea

[demicav]

I would have acted as if they weren't there and carried on . You weren't disturbing the birds and were helping with ID. Some people are just so pathetic. Welcome to WAB by the way.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by Chas

I have been passionate and interested in wildlife for as long as I can remember........about 52 years, I am 57. I do not claim to be an expert in anything but after a lifetime of taking note you do learn quite a lot. I have to say that I always try to avoid the twitching experience where there is usually a crowd which to me is totally alien to the quiet wildlife experience. I really can not abide what used to be called the green wellie brigade so I normally keep well away.
Late last year I did "crack" and with some trepidation made a visit to Bowling Green Marsh hide in Topsham Devon as there had been reports of a few birds that I quite fancied having a look at. When I had been there for 10 minutes or so I engaged in conversation about the various birds in front of the hide, the couple there with me were interested but knew nothing about ID so I was trying to help. After a while we were joined by a another couple armed with the Green Wellies and all the gear who prompty said "Would you shut up talking, I am trying to watch the birds" I was horified and promptly left followed by the couple, So what is the protocol was he in the right, was I wrong to speak, or was he the pretentious ignorant xxxxxxx that I think he was. Incidentally there was absolutely no disturbance to the birds who were very relaxed and restful as you would expect. Oh, and I havn't been back since!!!!

First off this person was out of order to speak in the tone he did.

There are unwritten rules or etiquette to 'hide behaviour' and they are generally as follows.

Talk in hushed voices - birds have ears too
Don't stick your arms out of the window flaps when pointing something out.
Don't use the hide as a place for a picnic.
When you have finished, shut the flaps you have been using.
Be poilte and courteous to other users.

I'm sure others will come up with some more but as I said they are unwritten and generally most people are respectul of other users and the birds.


"Odd - I thought you used your eyes to watch the birds, not your ears "

Your hearing is as important, if not moreso, as your eyes when birdwatching even in a hide. I have slightly dodgy eyesight and I hate to think how many I would have missed out on if I hadn't learnt to pick up on bird calls.

Cheers,

Adam

[Chas]

Well that is a good response from you all, totally agree with everything you have said, I realise that prattling on about unrelated issues would have been annoying as well. I must admit I had not perhaps looked at this from the angle of picking up calls, must remember that next time but there is a way of saying things isnt there. Sorry if my green wellie thing sounds a bit offish but I think you know where I am coming from. You know the sort that think it is trendy to be into environmental issues rather than genuinely caring. Incidentally It has made quite an impression on me that there are so many people out there belonging to WAB that are so interested in the UK's wildlife. The level of knowledge from you is staggering and photography unbelievable expert!

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Chas

Well that is a good response from you all, totally agree with everything you have said, I realise that prattling on about unrelated issues would have been annoying as well. I must admit I had not perhaps looked at this from the angle of picking up calls, must remember that next time but there is a way of saying things isnt there. Sorry if my green wellie thing sounds a bit offish but I think you know where I am coming from. You know the sort that think it is trendy to be into environmental issues rather than genuinely caring. Incidentally It has made quite an impression on me that there are so many people out there belonging to WAB that are so interested in the UK's wildlife. The level of knowledge from you is staggering and photography unbelievable expert!

Rudeness and the way this chap spoke to you is out of order - anywhere - not just in a hide! But - there is a but - I had an extremely annoying experience in Norfolk a couple of weeks ago where a birder, having had his fill of the snow and Lapland buntings 6 - 10ft in front of us all - then proceeded to bang on in a loud and really aggravating manner about his birding, where he'd been what he' seen etc ad nauseum - then he set to and called us three photographers (we had been sat there all morning - perfectly still - and were still sat there at dusk 6 hours later.......) saying we were intrusive and frightening the birds off preventing birders from seeing them......... You What?!! How I didn't accidentally kill him I don't know......... had it just been me and him I'd have done him in and buried him in the shingle..........

But people talking quietly in a hide about the birds in front of them - there;s nothing wrong with that - everyone starts somewhere - birding knowledge isn't something we're born with - tho some of the so called 'experts' must think they were.............

On a good day I'd have ignored him and on a bad day I would have slammed the hide door so hard the hide would have collapsed

Pauline

[LoveT]

Adam - sorry, you're absolutely right of course about using your ears and eyes to see birds.

I didn't intend to offend anybody - and me making flippant comments is no excuse either. My apologies to all.

Thea

[Ukwildlifeo]

Unfortunately there is a bit of elitism and arrogance from some birders. The sort of people that look at you with discust and don't even respond when you say good morning, just because im under 30, not wearing all outdoor gear and dont own £1000+ of kit. And dont get me started on those idiots that tut and shake heads because Im actually intersted in something other than birds on an RSPB reserve

[Wild-Woman]

Unfortunately there are folk who can be very rude and it's that sort of nasty response that 'put off' people who are new to birding and would like a bit of guidance with id. After all, that's how the majority of us bird lovers learnt about them in the first place. Goodness me what a sad individual it is that becomes so aggressive and possessive.
As Adam has said, hushed tones, bird talk is fine. I certainly learn by listening to experienced birders and quite often I have had some feature of behaviour pointed out to me that I probably wouldn't have noticed otherwise.
Thankfully, folk like this chap are in a very small minority and most birders are only to willing to pass on knowledge.

[VinceS]

I have had a similar experience no doubt as have many others. Unfortunately there are some "birders" who know it all and want to impress everyone else and then there are real "birders" who want to help others. As has already been said you were acting correctly and nodoubt the couple you spoke to were very greatful. Ignoring a pompous person as you did is the correct way to go but does require self-control (sometimes a lot). So well done.

vince

[Seajay]

You get a few people like this whatever you are doing but in my experience very rude people aren't the norm when watching nature so please don't let it put you off. Most people are kind and helpful and a day out is a pleasure.
To be frank I am not sure I would have left or stopped talking albeit very quietly. What if you were showing your children the wildlife?

[Kayleigh]

I have only ever been to one hide on the IOW. There was a man and his wife sort of running it with a cctc and a large scope. They were really helpful we had a wonderful time in there they were pointing out and naming the birds...

I watched Bill Oddie once say not to talk in hides as it upsets everyone. Buy how do you learn if no one helps you.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by LoveT

Adam - sorry, you're absolutely right of course about using your ears and eyes to see birds.

I didn't intend to offend anybody - and me making flippant comments is no excuse either. My apologies to all.

Thea

None taken

Adam

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by mh68

Mindless chatter, or speaking so loudly to disturb the birds is one thing, but helping someone in the way you were, and quietly too, seems perfectly acceptable to me. Sadly some people seem to think they own the hide, I would have left too, so totally with you on this.

Mark H

Hear hear, but on my way out he would've got a 'mouthful', in a whisper of course!

Regards, Chris

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

I have only ever been to one hide on the IOW. There was a man and his wife sort of running it with a cctc and a large scope. They were really helpful we had a wonderful time in there they were pointing out and naming the birds...

I watched Bill Oddie once say not to talk in hides as it upsets everyone. Buy how do you learn if no one helps you.

Come on one of my Ranger in the Hide events at Pennington Flash!!!
After 18 years in the job I'm finally being paid to bird watch - yea!

What the event actually is, is a ranger in one of the hides for two hours and anyone can ask questions, ask for help, ID of stuff - camera/photography help etc. I'm building up a little band of stalwarts, as well as drop-in folk responding to the poster advertising, and its very enjoyable. I do notice that some folk - those who know their birds backwards and some photographers leave looking a bit pained when this event is on .... I can appreciate it from both sides - when I am in my own time at any reserve I may want to be quiet - then again I may want to listen (and pick up a few tips!) but if I couldn't stand the degree of talk, I would find another hide.......... the same goes for school groups - kids are noisy and poke their hands thro the hide openings etc but we were all at that stage once upon a time.

Maybe a lot of the old-timer staunch serious thou shalt not birders have gone birding in the sky as I find in many places now there is a lot more tolerance and folks willing to help and impart knowledge in an easy friendly manner - without being snobby or clever - long may the helpful attitude continue

Pauline

[glsammy]

I sometimes think the importance of being quiet is over done. I remember when I visited Carsington Waters last year, there was a Water Vole in residence near their main bird hide. This small pond had a walkway going over it. On one occasion there was a photographer there getting very agitated by the people walking and talking, mumbling that the Vole would never show with that noise going on.
Later that day a school trip arrived and were all on the walkway, extremely noisy when, you've guessed it, the Water Vole came out!
We were there some time, when the kids moved on, the Vole promptly went back into the Reeds. About an hour later the kids came back on their way out of the hide, and the Vole showed itself again!
Thanks to those kids I got some excellent shots of that Vole, whilst Mr. prickly got nothing!

[PMG]

Originally Posted by glsammy

I sometimes think the importance of being quiet is over done. I remember when I visited Carsington Waters last year, there was a Water Vole in residence near their main bird hide. This small pond had a walkway going over it. On one occasion there was a photographer there getting very agitated by the people walking and talking, mumbling that the Vole would never show with that noise going on.
Later that day a school trip arrived and were all on the walkway, extremely noisy when, you've guessed it, the Water Vole came out!
We were there some time, when the kids moved on, the Vole promptly went back into the Reeds. About an hour later the kids came back on their way out of the hide, and the Vole showed itself again!
Thanks to those kids I got some excellent shots of that Vole, whilst Mr. prickly got nothing!