Applying Human traits to wildlife.

[coasty]

[quote=The Black Rabbit;207441]Sorry Andy.
I've read that over and over, and still can't fathom it.
Doug

I think the bit that I understand the least is:
"The ability to learn is not adaptation".
But learning (itself) is adaptation, is it not?

QUOTE]


Where did I say that Doug,,, As I dont beleive I did .I did say something similer to that or are you playing the politicians trick and adjusting a quote to serve your own arguements? Furthermore I thought that my reply was very valid as regards the subject of the thread. However I will have a think and try to make it simpler for you to understand,,.

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by coasty

.... we can see examples of learnt behaviours in other species so the ability to learn should not be viewed as a adaptation or evolutionary change in their own right.

Andy

This is the bit I meant Andy.
I tried to put that into my own words (I tried to understand it!) above and said:
"The ability to learn is not adaptation"
Is that what you meant? That is how I read it?

Then (without quotation marks), I then suggested, (myself), that:
"But learning itself, is adaptation, is it not?"

I don't think we are actually at loggerheads are we?
News to me if I'm playing a political trick also?
Cheers
Doug

[coasty]

Not at loggerheads at all,,, However a quote is a quote,,,,

and I am sure you arent playing tricks,,,,But I am keeping my eye on you

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by coasty

Not at loggerheads at all,,, However a quote is a quote,,,,

and I am sure you arent playing tricks,,,,But I am keeping my eye on you

Righto.
And sooooo.....
Are you going to explain (to the simple old me)-
"The ability to learn should not be viewed as a(n) adaptation...." (your words)
if it cannot be explained by
"The ability to learn is not adaptation"?(mine)

Cheers!
Doug

[coasty]

Originally Posted by The Black Rabbit

Righto.
And sooooo.....
Are you going to explain (to the simple old me)-
"The ability to learn should not be viewed as a(n) adaptation...." (your words)
if it cannot be explained by
"The ability to learn is not adaptation"?(mine)

Cheers!
Doug

"The ability to learn should not be viewed as a adaptation or evolutionary change in their own right."

Tut Tut there you go again removing words from within a sentence,,,

I think you should also note that I started the post with should we not consider as I am posing a question not offering a solution.

The point I am trying to suggest is that the learning behaviour is inherent in most higher forms of life, Therefore we can not consider it a significant adaptation or evolutionary step in itself.

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by coasty

"The ability to learn should not be viewed as a adaptation or evolutionary change in their own right."

Tut Tut there you go again removing words from within a sentence,,,

I think you should also note that I started the post with should we not consider as I am posing a question not offering a solution.

The point I am trying to suggest is that the learning behaviour is inherent in most higher forms of life, Therefore we can not consider it a significant adaptation or evolutionary step in itself.

Ta.
I geddit now...
Doug

[zan]

Perhaps what makes this such a difficult question is that we have no living ancestors to compare ourselves to. All previous Homo species, and those that went before them are now extinct, and we are left with trying to draw comparisons with other great apes like chimpanzees because they are the next best thing. But the fact remains that humans and chimpanzees parted ways hundreds of thousands of years ago and followed 2 distinct evolutionary paths.

However close we are, we have evolved differently.

To move slightly more back on topic, I think the discussion of human evolution is particularly relevant and highlights how much there still is to learn about our place in the animal kingdom (although none of us here would claim to be experts in the field!). Until we can establish this more fully, understanding exactly how similar other animals are to us in terms of emotions and other traits may well not be possible.

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by zan

Perhaps what makes this such a difficult question is that we have no living ancestors to compare ourselves to. All previous Homo species, and those that went before them are now extinct, and we are left with trying to draw comparisons with other great apes like chimpanzees because they are the next best thing. But the fact remains that humans and chimpanzees parted ways hundreds of thousands of years ago and followed 2 distinct evolutionary paths.
However close we are, we have evolved differently.

To move slightly more back on topic, I think the discussion of human evolution is particularly relevant and highlights how much there still is to learn about our place in the animal kingdom (although none of us here would claim to be experts in the field!). Until we can establish this more fully, understanding exactly how similar other animals are to us in terms of emotions and other traits may well not be possible.

Absolutely.
But you should see our neighbour!

[zan]

hahaha! Oh dear!

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by paulchandler6

Could it be both?

Paul

To be honest Paul, I'm not sure, but I think not.
This may help you. And me!
Cheers
Doug