Is Man's Best Friend Wildlife's Best Friend too?

[stripee]

I'm interested to hear what effect dogs have on wildlife. I know some species have a natural fear of dogs. Also dogs are used for hunting, and there is greater public access to countryside. What effect do they have on ground nesting birds? Is there any research as to disturbance of wildlife? For instance, Otters. I know people on WAB love their dogs and this is in no way directed at responsible dog walkers!

[mh68]

I can tell when dogs/dogwalkers have been trespassing in one of our local reserves as the Roe deer are on edge for several days afterwards.At the same place Badgers have abandoned setts in the same circumstances.I`ve also seen dogs - off the lead and under no control from the owner- attack Swans at another local site.Responsibly controlled dogs arent usually a problem in most places, but far too many dogs these days arent trained properly and the owners have no control over them, I think thats where any problems lie.

Mark H

[Cotham Marble]

Some related issues covered in a previous thread:

Dog Walks 'prompting bird flight'

I'm afraid many of the arguments made about how wildlife in gardens is unaffected by the presence of the resident family pet are quite spurious when made in relation to 'wild' sites.

Personally I'd be happy if the only domestic canines were working dogs, 'support' animals and those in breeding and retirement programmes needed to support working and support populations. Making a pet out of what should be a noble and active creature I find repulsive - but then I would say the same thing about hamsters.

CM

[stripee]

Thanks for replies But I'm really interested in how wildlife species react to dogs. I have read the old thread....I used to see Otter spraints for years on the same boulders in a stream, but there have been none this year at all. There have always been the odd dog walked nearby, but now there is a large number of big dogs living above the stream and I'm wondering if this has made the Otters feel insecure and sent them off somewhere quieter? About the same time I noticed Badgers that were quite relaxed became much shyer. I expect in some places wildlife will tolerate quite a large amount of disturbance by people and dogs, but I'm wondering how much before it moves off somewhere else?

[Kerry]

I would think that it depended more on the behaviour of the dogs rather than the fact that dogs were just there. To give an example: I have wild ducks that come regularly and for part of the year they stay from dawn till dusk; when they did breed they brought their ducklings from a nearby pond across a road and over a field to my land. Now I have dogs and you would think that they would actually be deterred by this fact as my dogs wander at will amongst the poultry. The wild ducks aren't at all bothered by them and my dogs can run past them without them even bothering to move. My dogs though have no interest in going after anything and I think that the ducks can sense that my dogs are no threat and therefore they have nothing to fear.

I have had foxes walking up the field towards me and the dogs and they again show no fear, just going calmly through the fence when they were part way towards us. Again my dogs don't start to behave in a way that says 'I'm coming after you, you're prey!' When you view a film of lions in Africa, the other animals don't immediately start to run when they see a lion, they start to run when the lion starts to hunt. So I would think that it is dogs that are running in a manner that says 'I want to catch, kill, chase' that would affect the wildlife the most. I remember my dogs once running down to the river where a kingfisher was perching on a branch. I didn't spot the kingfisher prior to them heading towards the river otherwise I would have called them to me and watched the kingfisher with my Binos. The kingfisher didn't move at all and just watched them. I tryed to stay very still but unfortunately the kingfisher spotted me and was off and away. I was the threat not the dogs.

[mh68]

I noted a while ago on another thread how local Foxes appeared to totally avoid the paths used the most regularly by dogwalkers, to the extent of not even appearing to cross them to get elsewhere.Most of the dogs round here aren`t what I consider to be well trained and would have a go at any creature they came across due to lack of control by the owner,in contrast to Kerrys dogs which sound as though theyre very well trained.
I wouldnt expect the presence of dogs to move Otters off your stream Stripee, after all theyre very much nocturnal so shouldnt feel under threat by the dogs` presence. One local river near to me shows regular signs of Otter activity despite it being very popular with dogwalkers, and another local stillwater breeding site remains such despite being another very popular dogwalking hotspot.In the former case the Otters are almost always active in darkness so unaffected by the dogs, while in the latter case they have a large expanse of water available to them,with inaccessible areas to get out of the way.Theyre very active during the day as well as night here too,regardless of how many dogwalkers are about.

Mark H

[ron1863]

Personally I think the question should be "What effect man has on Wildlife". A dog is usually accompanied by man when walking and I think it is man's presence and not a dog's that is responsible for scaring wildlife. My dog is only ever on a lead when walking beside a road, and never chases any form of wildlife. I've noticed that he can walk through a field of sheep or cows and they ignore him, and they only move when I approach. Foxes and deer avoid path but I don't think it has anything to do with dogs but rather the scent of man.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by ron1863

Personally I think the question should be "What effect man has on Wildlife". A dog is usually accompanied by man when walking and I think it is man's presence and not a dog's that is responsible for scaring wildlife. My dog is only ever on a lead when walking beside a road, and never chases any form of wildlife. I've noticed that he can walk through a field of sheep or cows and they ignore him, and they only move when I approach. Foxes and deer avoid path but I don't think it has anything to do with dogs but rather the scent of man.

Many times over the years people have asked me why I will only walk by myself with just the dogs for company. I see far more that way and find that dogs are far less of a disturbance than mankind. I find that when I do walk with someone else that I see about two thirds less wildlife than if I walk on my own. With sheep I find that they actually come across to me and the dogs, and until reading the thread on this site about the dangers of being attacked by cattle, I had never worried about their curiosity, but the savage attack on the walker by the flock of sheep has made me view them in a slightly different manner! Like Ron my dogs are always off the lead except for when they are near a road but I have had them since pups and brought them up not to chase anything. They are actually scared of sheep and terrified of cattle but then I join them in the fear of those stroppy cows and bullocks having been attacked when I didn't have the dogs with me.

At the moment a Moorhen with a damaged leg has moved onto my poultry area. I never normally get them at my property and can never get close enough to take a photo on the ponds near to me. This one obviously realises that it can get easy food at my property and again it is not in the slightest bit deterred by the dogs, but as soon as it spots me it is off into the hedgerow, only to reappear when it thinks that I am out of sight.

[mh68]

Do you think that the reason the dogs are so indifferent to wildlife is the fact that theyre in constant contact with animals and the novelty has worn off? or is it the way youve trained them?
Youre spot on as regards seeing more wildlife when out alone, with or without the dog...I`ve always believed that successful wildlife watching is a solitary hobby,where chances are greatly decreased when going out with others.
Reading back through my previous reply concerning Otters and Foxes,as both are largely nocturnal it seems odd that one (the Fox) avoids heavily used dog areas, while the other seems unaffected.Maybe its due to territory size? Otters being far more prone to travelling long distances and having far larger territories than our local Foxes?

Mark H

[Kerry]

I think that it is down to the way they have been trained. They still show an interest in the scents of animals but don't chase if they see one. We can practically stand on a hare and when it runs off the dogs make no effort to go after it but they are fascinated by its scent. If they see something that they haven't seen before they are more interested just because it is a novelty in the same way they are interested in a new dog or person. I have only taught them three words: leave, wait, no. Dogs want to please and will learn quickly at the puppy stage, it is when you take in an adult that has had no training that you have a major headache.

I think that the active time of foxes depends on the area they are in as I have often seen foxes round me during the day. I have had a family of them playing the in the field next to where my poultry are and that has been during the day. One used to come regularly to collect the eggs that I left for it in the hedgerow and that was usually about three in the afternoon. I also think that the area that they visit depends on how much space is available. In areas where there wasn't that much land the foxes happily used the same areas as dogs and I have had them cross the footpath in front of me during the middle of the day when I have been out walking dogs. That was in a built up area where land was scare.

[mh68]

Originally Posted by Kerry

I think that the active time of foxes depends on the area they are in as I have often seen foxes round me during the day. I have had a family of them playing the in the field next to where my poultry are and that has been during the day. One used to come regularly to collect the eggs that I left for it in the hedgerow and that was usually about three in the afternoon. I also think that the area that they visit depends on how much space is available. In areas where there wasn't that much land the foxes happily used the same areas as dogs and I have had them cross the footpath in front of me during the middle of the day when I have been out walking dogs. That was in a built up area where land was scare.

Agreed.While i`ve seen plenty of Foxes in daylight elsewhere, i`ve still yet to see one in daylight in my immediate area,despite having a good idea of their movements via tracking.I rarely hear of daylight sightings around here too from others.
The only other explanation I can think of for the Foxes reluctance to cross the area I mentioned is that it marks the edge of the territory.

Mark H

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by mh68

Agreed.While i`ve seen plenty of Foxes in daylight elsewhere, i`ve still yet to see one in daylight in my immediate area,despite having a good idea of their movements via tracking.I rarely hear of daylight sightings around here too from others.
The only other explanation I can think of for the Foxes reluctance to cross the area I mentioned is that it marks the edge of the territory.

Mark H

Do you know if the den is in the close locality of that area? The places where I have seen the foxes during the day has always been within a reasonable striking distance of a den. Certainly not right next to it but generally within a few minutes running of the den.

[mh68]

I`ve yet to locate the earth Kerry as some of their territory covers private land and I have no access, plus other areas are inaccessible due to dense undergrowth. Its an ongoing study and I hope to learn a bit more this coming Winter and next year.
On the reserve where i`ve observed Foxes the most, its pretty easy to tell the rough locality of their earth that year due to the number of regular sightings in a particular area,which concurs with your comments above.

Mark H

[stripee]

It certainly appears that wildlife is tolerant of people and dogs in many situations and is beginning to take advantage as well....I see foxes during the day here, and at night there is one that shows no fear of me at all. Foxes seem very good at working out what is and isn't a threat.
With the Otters, dog walkers along the stream have sighted them in the past, however the particular dogs living in the buildings above are not controlled (unlike yours Kerry) and chase everything, have very loud barks and are quite scary as well (although having complained things are better). I think the Otters have moved down the stream for a bit of peace.

When I had pet hamsters and rats, if someone visited with a dog, later if the pet rodents were let out for a run on the floor, they would exhibit paranoid behaviour, ie they would do stiff little walks and sniffing and generally look scared. They seemed to be programmed to be extremely wary of dog smell, although in the case of the hamster it must be some similar canine family in Syria

[mh68]

As far as small mammals go, there are still plenty in the areas round here used by the majority of dogwalkers, but its a different world going into one of my regular haunts where dogs arent allowed, the place is alive in comparison at all times of day,so the presence of dogs must have some effect on their periods of activity.
I`d imagine ground nesting/roosting birds would be most affected by roaming dogs at certain times of the year.I`ve yet to come across a wintering spot of Short Eared Owls for example - a ground roosting species - in areas used a lot by dogwalkers

Mark H

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by mh68

I`ve yet to locate the earth Kerry as some of their territory covers private land and I have no access, plus other areas are inaccessible due to dense undergrowth. Its an ongoing study and I hope to learn a bit more this coming Winter and next year.
On the reserve where i`ve observed Foxes the most, its pretty easy to tell the rough locality of their earth that year due to the number of regular sightings in a particular area,which concurs with your comments above.

Mark H

In this area the crows and rooks immediately start to mob the foxes and so they are worth paying attention to in order to try and figure out where a Fox might be when there is dense undergrowth. One area round here has that sort of landscape and I can spot when the Fox is coming out by the behaviour of the birds. They are also great for drawing your attention to birds of prey. Very handy creatures as far as I am concerned, though sadly they are another creature that is viewed as vermin.

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by stripee

With the Otters, dog walkers along the stream have sighted them in the past, however the particular dogs living in the buildings above are not controlled (unlike yours Kerry) and chase everything, have very loud barks and are quite scary as well (although having complained things are better). I think the Otters have moved down the stream for a bit of peace.

I don't blame them for moving on! Do you know where they have moved on to or are you just going to be deprived of the pleasure of seeing them?

[Kerry]

Originally Posted by mh68

As far as small mammals go, there are still plenty in the areas round here used by the majority of dogwalkers, but its a different world going into one of my regular haunts where dogs arent allowed, the place is alive in comparison at all times of day,so the presence of dogs must have some effect on their periods of activity.
I`d imagine ground nesting/roosting birds would be most affected by roaming dogs at certain times of the year.I`ve yet to come across a wintering spot of Short Eared Owls for example - a ground roosting species - in areas used a lot by dogwalkers

Mark H

I definitely think it depends on which bit of the habitat an animal uses as regards how much of a problem dog walkers are. I saw far more tree nesting/roosting birds in a built up area with lots of dog walkers than I have in the countryside but there were really good food supplies with the opportunity of going into peoples gardens for more food.

[stripee]

Originally Posted by Kerry

I don't blame them for moving on! Do you know where they have moved on to or are you just going to be deprived of the pleasure of seeing them?

Well it's just a small stream, I was very pleased when someone pointed out the Otter spraints originally a few years ago (I wouldn't have known what they were). So if disturbed I think they would have chosen a quieter place as it's not easy to hide away. Up the stream possibly into the next door woods, or back down to where the smaller stream joins the river. They may come back in time I hope

[mh68]

Originally Posted by stripee

Well it's just a small stream, I was very pleased when someone pointed out the Otter spraints originally a few years ago (I wouldn't have known what they were). So if disturbed I think they would have chosen a quieter place as it's not easy to hide away. Up the stream possibly into the next door woods, or back down to where the smaller stream joins the river. They may come back in time I hope

Have you searched other spots for spraint or have you just been checking the previous regular sprainting spot? I ask because individuals sometimes have their own preferred spots for sprainting, so if that particular animal has moved on/passed away etc another animal may be using the stream but marking on its own (different) preferred spot?

Mark H

[mh68]

Originally Posted by Kerry

In this area the crows and rooks immediately start to mob the foxes and so they are worth paying attention to in order to try and figure out where a Fox might be when there is dense undergrowth. One area round here has that sort of landscape and I can spot when the Fox is coming out by the behaviour of the birds. They are also great for drawing your attention to birds of prey. Very handy creatures as far as I am concerned, though sadly they are another creature that is viewed as vermin.

Thats a good tip about the Crows Kerry, thanks for that

Mark H

[Kerry]

I do hope that they come as it would be a tragedy if they left the area after having moved back in.


As a slight aside from the thread a question for Mark: how far will Otters go from access to rivers or streams when searching for suitable new places to colonise? (hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread for a minute Stripee)

[mh68]

You mean how far across land away from water will they travel Kerry?

Mark H