How common is Lyme's disease?

[stripee]

Someone in my family was diagnosed with Lyme's disease a few months ago. She's young and spends a fair amount of time outdoors where she lives in Highlands. So I suppose it is something to do with deer. Or maybe sheep Anyway it has caused her to be severely fatigued and she is having to do very little. I read that if undiagnosed it can lead to severe symptoms. Is it a risk for any countryside user?? or just in deer areas. I think I heard of someone who had visited Richmond Park catching it.

[Run rabbit]

I've read that 1 in 3 ticks carries the disease and that there is a population explosion of ticks this year because of the weather conditions.

I think the article particularly mentioned scotland and the lake district. It recommended tucking your trousers into your walking socks if rambling through long grass or similar. I gathered that you have to brush against them for them to transfer.

It all sounded very nasty and we were concerned enough to buy some cycle clips to wear while out walking in the lake district this year.

You may be able to read the article on go4awalk.com if you like.

I hope your relative recovers quickly.

Jo

[Dan Salter]

Great...something else for me to worry myself sick over. What are the symptons? is it curable? does it kill you?....

[seamusagleann]

we had a safety meeting a short time ago and the subject of lymes disease came up. the tick itself , when ready climbs to the very tip of grass to wait for a host to pass ,once it's on it finds an exposed area and attaches to the skin then feeds . when lymes disease is apparant a red ring appears around the wound . for some reason i hardly ever get ticks ,however one of the other park rangers gets them all summer and one of the foresters has lymes disease and is in hospital .

[naturelover]

i must be thick or something,i didnt realise tics drank human blood,never herd of that befor,not good for wabbing is it.

[Wild-Woman]

Just got to take sensible precautions in long grass really. Tight woven trousers tucked into your socks and boots, insect repellant and a thorough examination of your body before a shower. If you find one, get the doc to remove it and get on some anti-biotics to be on the safe side. Trying to remove the tick yourself can make it disgorge it's contents back into your bloodstream. Not nice.
Walking through grass in shorts where sheep or deer have been isn't a good idea.

[poschiavanus]

Lyme disease is caused by a spirochaete bacteria, and providing it is diagnosed early enough can be readily treated by antibiotics. Unfortunately it is a bit of a chameleon, with a range of symptoms. It is also awkward to test for and thus may be misdiagnosed.

The island of Nantucket off Cape Cod has a very high density of deer ticks and extremely high rates of Lyme Disease (around 500 cases per 100,000 patients a year compared with 4 cases per 100,000 patients elsewhere in New England and, probably, in the UK ). Consequently Nantucket features very heavily in the medical & scientific literature on Lyme Disease. Here's some info and advice from Nantucket:

Nantucket Conservation Foundation : Ticks and Your Health

And a link to the UK Lyme Disease association page:

Lyme Disease Action, the UK based Lyme charity

The natural history of the disease is different in the UK - different tick, no white-footed mice and so on. Note that the ticks may carry other diseases (as in the States), and that dogs are vulnerable too.

Sorry to be so gloomy.

poschiavanus

[naturelover]

hi thanks for the infomation,i didnt know most of that so there must be others out there that dont know too.

[stripee]

Many thanks too for all the info! The family member had to drop out of uni for a year, and has been really ill, it seems it can take a long time to get over, although maybe she got the antibiotics a bit late, it can be confused with ME and similar illnesses. Something to think about when out for a walk. And dogs being at risk too..

[Bub-les]

and cats my cat has picked up 2 ticks this year. Successfully removed and no harm to the cat.

[Mr Mag00]

I hope this doesnt upset too much.
I have always treated it with a little complacency, checking for ticks but wearing shorts throughout the season. I work in west Dorset.
However i have met a girl a few weeks a go, She contracted it a few years a go and was treated for ME for a number of years the doctors misdiagnosed. She collapsed at Oxford uni, very fortunately her family have money and are looking world wide for results but currently she is bed ridden with multiple organ complications. I was very upset by meeting her and now take it far more seriously but it wont stop me wearing shorts just liberal application of jungle spray.
there are many strong holds for the disease.
best of luck for your family member.

[JP]

Ive had deer ticks on me in Wiltshire and sussex and have been ok, and a friend i was with got tick tagged in scotland, its a ticky russian roulette unfortunatly, I hope she recovers swiftly

[PeterJL]

I knew about the risk of Lyme disease form ticks before I went to stay with friends in Inverness earlier in the year. Their countryside areas are full of ticks and Lyme disease is a possibility. I tucked my socks in, wore gaiters and was sensible as far as possible but got ticks on my hand and face.

My friends have a little plastic tool for tick removal which does the job without leaving mouthparts under your skin. The doctor wasn't overly concerned and said he would give me antibiotics if any symptoms developed.

[JP]

Ive used those little plastic jobbies, as soon as you disturb a tick they tend to start injecting their stomach contents back into their victim, i now scrape off with a sharp knife quickly and then treat the mouth partslike a splinter, either pick out or keep clean and use antiseptic ointment or leave to your body to eject. but thats just me

[naturelover]

has any one ever tryed the old method of turps or meths, dabbed on the tic and it should release its self,thats what they yoused to do years ago,sometimes the old methods work well.

[Dogghound]

I had afew tick's lodge on me this year, i just ripped them out with a pair of tweezers, twist and pull. To be fair i wanted them off my body, dont think i could wait all that time to get a Dr to do it.

[Wild-Woman]

Originally Posted by naturelover

has any one ever tryed the old method of turps or meths, dabbed on the tic and it should release its self,thats what they yoused to do years ago,sometimes the old methods work well.

Think with this method they still disgorge their contents unfortunately.

I do think that there appears to be some folk more vulnerable than others....why I have no idea. Perhaps they taste nice.

[Dan Salter]

I have spent whole summers working in knee high grass in shorts while volunteering and have never come accross a tic on me?..Although im fully aware what they are as i once kept reptiles. Are they only a problem in certain areas? i have never been with anyone on work parties who has had a tic on them in the kent / north kent/ downs areas?

I had NO idea about Lymes disease until this thread so thank you...Maybe its something to get volunteer leaders to be aware of and make the volunteers aware ....i shall be keeping things tucking in from now on but i never wanted to look too much like a rambler

[sometimes]

Long socks and breeks don't sound so daft now.

I once had a tic climb all the way up to my inner thigh before it found some palatable flesh and there it lodged itself.

[coasty]

People should also be aware of Weils disease which is probably even more of a threat, Here is a HSE document that lists the dangers,,,,

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg84.pdf

certainly in the civil engineering industry where people are working around water its taken very seriousley

[stripee]

Yes, weils disease once common problem...its important to wash water cress and buy from accredited beds. My relative lives a way north of Inverness so maybe there is more lymes up there, it is possible she thought she had flu or something else for a while which is why it took hold.

[nightshade]

Some websites seem to think that Lyme's disease is far more prevalent now
but largely incorrectly diagnosed.
If you think it is possible that you could have been infected tell your doctor
and insist that your assertation goes on record.
The Quad-Cities Star-Gazette

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Wild-Woman

If you find one, get the doc to remove it and get on some anti-biotics to be on the safe side.

No, no, no, no!!!

Sorry Jules.

Unless things have radically changed since I was a GP, the average GP will never have removed a tick. In spite of living a rural area with lots of deer I never removed one!! Neither do I think it is a medical problem!!

There are tick removers available and many vets sell them and they are available on the web. see previous threads. They can also be bought from a well know web auction site (and several other new devices I see too).

They are really just mini plastic V-shaped nail removers as found on claw hammers, which allow the mouth parts to be relatively easily removed from the skin - pinching and thus squeezing the tick to remove it results in some regurgitation of stomach contents with the theoretical risk of increasing the load of infection.
(The same is claimed for the lighted cigarrette method)

When I last did a literature search on this this was debated. Normally infection is transferred via the saliva on biting and sucking, and this also contains anti-coagulants that are thought to increase the infectivity of the saliva. Stomach contents do contain some bugs, but whether they are capable of infecting is not established.

Fine pincers under the tick body will do the same thing.

That a tick should be removed clockwise or anti-clockwise, is an urban myth.

Now anti-biotics ..............

They are NOT (yet) recommended routinely after a tick bit in UK, nor in USA in 2006

"
For prevention of Lyme disease after a recognized tick bite, routine use of antimicrobial prophylaxis or serologic testing is not recommended (E-III). A single dose of doxycycline may be offered to adult patients (200 mg dose) and to children 8 years of age (4 mg/kg up to a maximum dose of 200 mg) (B-I) when all of the following circumstances exist: (a) the attached tick can be reliably identified as an adult or nymphal I. scapularis tick that is estimated to have been attached for 36 h on the basis of the degree of engorgement of the tick with blood or of certainty about the time of exposure to the tick; (b) prophylaxis can be started within 72 h of the time that the tick was removed; (c) ecologic information indicates that the local rate of infection of these ticks with B. burgdorferi is 20%; and (d) doxycycline treatment is not contraindicated. The time limit of 72 h is suggested because of the absence of data on the efficacy of chemoprophylaxis for tick bites following tick removal after longer time intervals. Infection of 20% of ticks with B. burgdorferi generally occurs in parts of New England, in parts of the mid-Atlantic States, and in parts of Minnesota and Wisconsin, but not in most other locations in the United States. Whether use of antibiotic prophylaxis after a tick bite will reduce the incidence of HGA or babesiosis is unknown.
"
Login

This is a reputable American source. America has a much higher incidence of Lyme disease at least partly due to different bugs. They are also much more defensive in their medicine and much more liberal on prescribing.
Previously I posted from the 2001 paper - recommendatins have not changed!)

Because of the apparent infectivity to humans of ticks in USA and UK, the 20% tick infectivity rate above should be treated with caution.

Having said that, there is also no doubt that early treatment of the _disease_ is VASTLY better than late treatment.

There are lots of web sites around that say the opposite, but they are usually run by self selected, self-interest groups and in my surfing experience they are simply not evidence based. They should be ignored. Including the American web-site with lots of doctors pontificating.
But
Please be careful in your reading - the thread a few weeks back on walking dogs and bird disturbance showed some people on WAB are not used to what in science is called "critical reading".
And
The major UK group
Lyme Disease FAQ
now has a web-site that is far better than it used to be ;-)

One or two other points at random

* Blood tests are very unreliable
* There is no vaccine
* Even if infected and even if not treated, most people do NOT go on to develop the nasty (joint, heart, brain) long term problems.
* The apparent rising incidence of Lyme in UK is probably largely due to increase recognition and increased reporting and only part due to rising risk of infection.
* If you get a tick plus rash you MUST insist on treatment even if blood tests are negative; not all Drs are informed as well as they should be.

Sorry to go on and on ..............

[Muggsy]

ohh my good gawd

I dont think I'll check out that link Hobjob

I run my own forum, similar to this one, not as many members or traffic regarding fishing, both here and in Western Australia.
Through my forum I have met many friends and during my last holiday there they kept up with my activities via the forum.

It was 2003 ( actually the last time I had a day off )

I spent a couple of days with a true aussie countryman, Dave, my longest standing aussie mate, we went bush searching for echidna etc its a truly fantastic place.

Having returned to Perth Dave rang me "just check yourself out mate, get someone to help if need be, only I found a roo tick, they can be dodgy mate"

What, I'm not your average whinging pom, I'm an "ard" english farmer, these things dont phase me, but hey, if aussie dave says check, check I will.

Using a couple of mirrors, well my brother was away and the sister in law is not the prettiest of aussie natives I find 3.
They were tiny, 2 on my upper thigh, glad I used the mirrors and one just above my ankle on my left foot.

Ohh what a laugh this will be, I thought.

Using mortien spray, I got shot of the thigh huggers, but carefully looked after the one on my ankle for 5 days, allowing it to drink and swell.
( well I only had a compact with no macro feature )

On the second day of our friendship, I announce on the forum that I have met an aussie female who goes by the name of Tiffany and we are very close already.

All my true blue aussie mates think this is fantastic posting on the forum "pictures mate pictures"
I love my sense of humour sometimes

After 5 days Tiffany has grown really nicely on english blood and I take the pics, posting them on the forum declaring
"heres tiffany, turns out shes just a blood sucking parasite, just like all of them females" " but I brought her some perfume (pictures using the mortien spray) and now she's left me"



Aussie Dave rings, at first laughing, then becomes more serious, what he told me that day is evidently true.
To this day, 4 years on, the site of that tick attachment still flares up red and irritates to hell

ohh well ho hum.

Muggsy