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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2013, 01:43 PM
poschiavanus's Avatar
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Yeates View Post
I don't think -
11. Evidence-only records (mole hills, galls, leaf-miners, etc) do not count for the competition unless the organism itself is seen or heard.
as a bare rule is a good idea, many of these are unequivocal and the possibility of confusion (and thus of course justifiable exclusion) could be cleared up by an acknowledged expert

an example is the mines (often incorrectly called galls) of Phytomyza ilicis Phytomyza ilicis (holly leaf-miner) | Natural History Museum which are virtually ubiquitous on every holly bush or tree in (at least lowland to mid-upland) Britain; an entomologist friend who has recorded thousands of these mines has only ever seen an adult once; or is one expected to dig out the unfortunate larva, which - other than to an expert - will look pretty much like any other Agromyzid larva, and won't prove anything.
I suppose it's a fun idea, and I am a great one for working ones local patches rather than driving for miles to 'special' spots; but I would prophesy that you won't get anywhere near 1000 unless you are doing (or getting someone else to do) a lot of entomology and mycology . . .
good hunting
Chris
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2013, 02:09 PM
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

If I was to choose a square it would probably be SK5439. Off the top of my head I would expect to find:
  • Up to 400 species of higher plants
  • Perhaps 50 species of birds
  • 50 galls
  • 50+ leaf miners
  • 5 mammals (grey squirrel, fox, wood mouse, human, pipistrelle), but can't count fallow & red deer in park
  • 2 amphibians
  • perhaps 100 moths
  • 17-18 butterflies
  • 10 odos
  • 20 bryophytes
  • 20 each of bugs, beetles, hymenoptera and assorted diptera
  • 10 spiders
  • 10 collembola
  • 50-100 fungi (mix of micros & the usual suspects

The flowering plants are somewhat problematical as many were introduced when one of the University Campus sites was landscaped 15 years ago. Many are clearly self-sustaining populations, and support a good and interesting range of insects & fungi. Some of these like Carex elata are in the wrong place, others like Typha angustifolia are in the right place but because of rhiztomous growth it's difficult to be sure that they are properly self-sustaining. Oddities include both Italian Alder and Manna Ash self-seeding very well, and a range of plants escaping from the green roofs.

To extend the numbers beyond these levels would tax my ID skills. Obviously there is good scope to improve numbers of beetles, many bug groups, and probably one or two groups of diptera, such as hoverflies.

In urban sites the garden rule is also a bit of a nonsense: I can tell you exactly which plants self-seed in the garden and are therefore potentially self-sustaining: but it's a lot harder to decide how to treat things like Winter Aconite, Sowbread, Snowdrops etc. away from gardens. Even in one of my local SSSIs these are most usually planted by well-wishers who want to make the place more colourful. (Mind you, that SSSI has been so messed about by various construction projects. Many of the grasslands are more-or-less entirely sown with various commercial wild-flower mixes.)
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2013, 06:36 PM
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

I refuse to add "human" to my list.

If I get 999, after scraping together all the bugs, algae and slime molds from the beneath the fly tips and on the dark side of the doggy-poo bins, if it's the last few milliseconds of the year, I won't defile my list with this species. NEVER.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2013, 07:51 PM
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPrince View Post
I'm glad people will be working a variety of habitats including excellent wildlife ones, it will make for an interesting comparison.

Don't knock urban walls though - how many species are possible on a decent stretch? Lichens, mosses, higher plants, collembola, arachnids, bag-worms, hymenoptera, hemiptera...

Matt
Glad you have joined that and will be watching with interest for sure!

Might end up twitching your patch a few times as a result. Happy to help out with a mobile moth trap now and then if you have a quiet site within the square in mind.

Good luck, I am sure you will 'walk' it.

Regards,
Andrew.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2013, 11:33 PM
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Yeates View Post
I don't think -
11. Evidence-only records (mole hills, galls, leaf-miners, etc) do not count for the competition unless the organism itself is seen or heard.
as a bare rule is a good idea, many of these are unequivocal and the possibility of confusion (and thus of course justifiable exclusion) could be cleared up by an acknowledged expert
I find it kind of curious that this rule is immediately followed by:
"12. Species can be detected by sound (e.g. bird-song) so long as you are sure of the identification and that the species is present within the square. If you really want to count fox on the basis of smell alone, this is left to your conscience..." (Bold added)
Where does "your conscience" come into it? Presumably you are supposed to 'feel bad' because you are breaking rule 11?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPrince View Post
I'll be tackling an urban square in my home town of Exeter
Best of 'luck' to you and Deb (+anyone else who chooses an urban square - especially one that you don't have a garden in!). I would have considered trying the square where I live if I had a garden, but I reckon that I'd soon attract police attention if I was constantly poking around other peoples garden walls, etc. in my area!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPrince View Post
I'm glad people will be working a variety of habitats including excellent wildlife ones, it will make for an interesting comparison.

Don't knock urban walls though - how many species are possible on a decent stretch? Lichens, mosses, higher plants, collembola, arachnids, bag-worms, hymenoptera, hemiptera...

Matt
Off hand I can't think of any urban walls in my immediate area where I have seen much sign of any of the above. However, once I've take the time to investigate the (umm...almost non existent) walls within my chosen square, I'll hopefully feel more confident about identifying some of these on more urban walls.


Quote:
Originally Posted by poschiavanus View Post
If I was to choose a square it would probably be SK5439. Off the top of my head I would expect to find:
  • Up to 400 species of higher plants
  • Perhaps 50 species of birds
  • 50 galls
  • 50+ leaf miners
  • 5 mammals (grey squirrel, fox, wood mouse, human, pipistrelle), but can't count fallow & red deer in park
  • 2 amphibians
  • perhaps 100 moths
  • 17-18 butterflies
  • 10 odos
  • 20 bryophytes
  • 20 each of bugs, beetles, hymenoptera and assorted diptera
  • 10 spiders
  • 10 collembola
  • 50-100 fungi (mix of micros & the usual suspects
This list made me wonder what I might expect to find in my square...
  • 200+ species of higher plants (perhaps many more - botany isn't a strong point for me!)
  • 20+ bryophytes and lichens??
  • 100+ species of birds (61 so far)
  • c10 mammals
  • 3 amphibians
  • 10+ fish
  • perhaps 100+ moths (permission to run a moth trap won't be a problem, but I wouldn't leave it unattended).
  • 18+ butterflies
  • c18 odonata
  • 20 each of bugs, and hymenoptera
  • 50+ beetles
  • 30 assorted diptera
  • 30+ spiders
  • 10+ galls (I have a couple of books but have rarely used them)
  • 10+ leaf miners (If I can identify them - does anyone have good reference suggestions?)
  • 50+ other assorted invertebrates (including aquatic invertebrates)
  • 20 fungi -more if I have a lot of help!
So 700 species seems reasonable as a minimum, and I think that I can increase this with a concerted effort to get to grips with the plants and invertebrates in the area. I'm not sure that I will be able to inspire myself to make much effort with the fungi though!


Quote:
Originally Posted by diggleken View Post
This should bump up the ID requests on WAB............system might crash..........
Cheers
Ken
Will those of you who have expertise in plants or the invertebrate groups that I don't know too well please try and prioritise my requests for IDs/confirmations before the system crashes - thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb London View Post
I refuse to add "human" to my list.

If I get 999, after scraping together all the bugs, algae and slime molds from the beneath the fly tips and on the dark side of the doggy-poo bins, if it's the last few milliseconds of the year, I won't defile my list with this species. NEVER.
Not even if you discover primitive cavemen living in caverns under the city?

I'm not sure that I'd want to include humans either.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 20-02-2013, 09:24 AM
Frozen
 
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Posts: 1,319
Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

Things have moved on some since my last WAB visit...nice to see others having a go.

Glad this thread has started up, can use this to keep things updated my side. I do try, but, i'm not the "bloggy" type so probably be scant on detail?

Just to update, this is my patch. Where's the path ? Going to stay mostly in the confines of the Colliery spoil. I'd be very happy if i get over the 600 mark for my chosen site.

Made a start, got 92 species so far. I've got in the Trees and some of their Lichens. Most of the records are of Inverts...

The last couple of records, which are in no particular order.

Goldfinch
Grey Wagtail
Schendyla nemorensis (Centipede)
Tasgius morsitans (Staph)
Olophrum piceum (Staph)
Vertigo pygmaea (Snail)...will put this in snail of the day

Not got a portable Moth trap, may ask one of the local landowners can i run an extension lead or three off their electric.

Good luck all, have fun.

Regards Chris...
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 20-02-2013, 09:45 AM
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Posts: 233
Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

1000 in 1km? Meaning 1000 individuals or 1000 species?
I got the impression there is a little of confusion about what to count.
I think 1000 species per 1 km only can be found in rainforests (1).
Anyway it is fun to be looking around.


1)Rainforest Facts
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 20-02-2013, 12:24 PM
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew C View Post
Glad you have joined that and will be watching with interest for sure!

Might end up twitching your patch a few times as a result. Happy to help out with a mobile moth trap now and then if you have a quiet site within the square in mind.

Good luck, I am sure you will 'walk' it.

Regards,
Andrew.
Thanks for that Andrew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyW View Post
Best of 'luck' to you and Deb (+anyone else who chooses an urban square - especially one that you don't have a garden in!). I would have considered trying the square where I live if I had a garden, but I reckon that I'd soon attract police attention if I was constantly poking around other peoples garden walls, etc. in my area!
Thanks Roy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyW View Post
Off hand I can't think of any urban walls in my immediate area where I have seen much sign of any of the above.
Maybe I'm lucky - the wall outside my house has had most of those, despite fairly heavy traffic flow past it. I'll try and do a special 'wall' section with my first proper post on the weekend.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyW View Post
[*]20+ bryophytes and lichens??
The FSC lichens on twigs by Dobson is a good starting point, with a bit of work you should be able to get 20+ lichens no problem. The bryophytes are something I struggle with personally, but the moss bible has a very useful breakdown by habitat type. Lichens and bryophytes are probably easier to make a start on in an urban setting.. where nutrient enrichment drastically reduces the options!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyW View Post
I'm not sure that I'd want to include humans either.
Like them or not, its hard to ignore them as inhabitants and the main shaping force within my 1Km square. Therefore, with the kind of morales honed from a formative decade twitching birds, I'll happily tick the wife. She was pretty wild when I saw a Kingfisher fly from the leat to the river, and she missed it.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 20-02-2013, 12:29 PM
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritillary View Post
1000 in 1km? Meaning 1000 individuals or 1000 species?
I got the impression there is a little of confusion about what to count.
I think 1000 species per 1 km only can be found in rainforests (1).
Anyway it is fun to be looking around.


1)Rainforest Facts
1000 species fritillary - you'd be surprised at the diversity in the UK. We have something like 65,000 species and counting. Any 1K square with a good range of habitats should be able to manage well in excess of 1000 species, its just a challenge for a single individual to find and identify them.

Regards,
Matt
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 24-02-2013, 05:38 PM
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Re: 1000 for 1 km square - anyone up to the challenge?

Got started today. Mainly birds as this is easy for me just from calls and song. Many plants are still unidentifiable rosettes or smaller. The trees will be added to when leaves appear - no need to make it difficult for myself. I didn't want to catch the woodlice (they looked cosy under their corrugated sheet) and the slugs just fill me with ID dread. Not an insect in sight - well it was snowing.

I will have to create an Excel document and start numbering and sorting alphabetically (and I'll have to call each species by a name I'll remember, and the need to carry this check list will become more important as I amass more and more names). But a start has been made. What a long journey I have ahead of me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So far it's been a very therapeutic exercise. I stopped at an urban stream (not realising at that time that it is out of my map area) and looked at the weed growing on the concrete. I kind of got really pleased there was weed in this stream, though it wasn't identifiable, as the bottoms of others I looked at were grey and slimy looking. I noticed a Moorhen. I never would have looked for long enough to see a Moorhen there before. Such a weird place to see one.

Another highlight was following the stream in my square and finding a miniature nature reserve type area. Just downstream of this I heard a call I hardly ever hear. I walked up and down, and it flew in the opposite direction each time, quickly confirming a Grey Wagtail.

I noticed a tree outside one of the gardens. I'm not sure it was the 2 m away, but I think I'm counting it. The girth of the trunk confirmed it was considerably older than me or any of the houses, probably as old as the church up the road. It was a yew. I have no evidence whether this was planted by anyone or not, but I have no way of knowing which trees I looked at today have been planted. I think the rules state that you can't count a tree that is obviously planted. Due to the age of this yew, no one can say. What a wonderful finding on a road that I travel down several times a week. I will have looked at it and just thought it was someone's overgrown conifer, and not given it a second thought, or the credit that it deserves.

Basically, this is a wonderful and humbling exercise in just observing and recording what can be seen.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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