spotting scopes

[captaincarot]

hi there

i'm looking into getting a budget spotting scope.

has anyone any experience of the vanguard signature range of scopes

the bresser safari range

or the meade red tail.

how do they compare for example with the bushnell space master, for ease of use and quality of image.

i have seen a lot of examples but i'm not seeing any independant reviews of these scopes.

it appears that scope reviewers only appear to consider brands which are far beyond my budget for the body alone.

[Hobjob]

With optics you tend to get what you pay for, though at the top
end the differences become quite small.

Even cheap optics seem quite good when you start out, but my
personal experience is that as one gains experience one soon
becomes aware of the deficiencies.

It took me several weeks to get accustommed to my scope (Viking).
I had gone in expecting to buy the RSPB scope, but shelled out
a lot more for a lot more clarity. Reading sign posts is a quick
way to tell.

A big bright image looks great - soon it may become apparent that
the colours are not clear and that there is a slight blur on the
sharp edges. This happened to me with a Russian built scope
that I bought off eBay - It took me a couple of weeks to realize
I could make out more detail in the smaller image of my medium
priced Bins

There are some birders who seem to worry about having the right
image / badge on their equipemt. But to be honest, most have chosen
very carefully.

IMO the best way to chose optics is to go to a busy reserve and
ask others to have a look through their equipment. You will get
very few rejections (unless there is something very unusual about!).
Many of us love to bore the pants off others by talking about such
things.

Spotty teenagers in high street shops know nothing about optics.
It is also very hard to try out a scope in a store, or even outside
on the pavement.

Optics shops on reserves, including the RSPB bigger centres not
only usually have someone who knows what they are talking about,
and uses optics regularly, but they also will let you try two or
three scopes side by side. (Make sure they are on equivalent tripods)
e.g. Cley Spy, has a wonderful viewing area over the Cley Marshes (North Norfolk).

Sadly you won't find the cheaper ranges there though - I guess they
don't like dissatisfied customers

Where are you?
I am sure there are WAB members who be happy to meet up and let
you try their equipment.

Finally - don't stint on a tripod. A sturdy tripod with silky smooth
panning and locking makes all the difference - again I learnt this
the hard way; though in hides I often just rest on the window-ledges.

Don't rush - you will regret it!

[captaincarot]

the trouble is it's not a case of saving up or rushing, i don't have the ability to save up, as my current circumstances are about as bad as they could get.
which would mean it would be a combined brithday and christmas present from some one else.

so as i said it is a fixed low budget without the option for aquiring more expensive models.
which is why i want to know if anyone has tried any of these particular model types.
it will be something in this price range or nothing.

yet i guess from what you say that it will be nothing as they aren't worth using.

as for the asking people at reserves.
i'm already doing this with some results, the problem is asking some one to look through their nikon, swarovski, questar. or such like tells me absolutely noting about the things that are within the budget range.

or to look at it another way, there's no point in test driving a ferrari if you're only ever going to be able to afford a ford ka

but thanks for your advice anyway

[squishy]

i just bought an opticron MM2 ED 52mm 45 with HDR zoom eyepiece, and the quality is excellent! the eye piece on that body goes up to 37x, which is less then the bressers, but the bressers are really unusable bast 40x, so no disadvantage.

when i first started looking at budget scopes i really distcounted the 'mighty midget' because i thought it would compromise on quality, but recently i had a look down one at a bird fair, and compared it to all the other scopes i was considering, and it lead in quality by far!

[captaincarot]

cheers squishy

[Stevelphoto]

Hi,

You could get a half decent scope for under £100, better than those you mention.
Opticron do some nice scopes indeed, and even their smaller objective scopes (e.g the MM2 and the IS50) tend to outperform larger scopes of a similar price in terms of image quality, but obviously not brightness - that's because regardless of coatings, an 80mm scope will be brighter than a 60mm, a 60mm>50mm etc.

Most cheaper scopes have zoom lenses. This is because the concept of a zooming lens is quite attractive to first time buyers. Unfortunately, zooms are only good if they are expensive - because it's expensive to build one of the same quality as a fixed lens.
A fixed lens of 20-30X will cover most situations, and above this power on a zoom on a cheap scope will be rubbish. What's more, at the budget end, a fixed lens tends to be brighter with a wider view (i.e you can actual see more 'stuff' through the scope - called field of view) than the equivalent power from a zoom.

Unfortunately, fixed scopes aren't so easy to find at a budget level, but secondhand opticrons are always a safe bet. They're well made by a reputable company, and tend to be well coated (coatings on the lenses improve the images colour/contrast).
I've heard from a fair few people that the opticron picollo is great value for money @ around £60. The previous model of the mighty midget is actually a bigger scope (60mm as apposed to the newer 50mm), and apparently isn't too bad. The opticron IS series are very good starter scopes, too.
The IS50 is said to be a better scope than the MM2 - especially in terms of build, because the MM2 is a drawtube scope - i.e it has to be extended, allowing sand + dust to get in. I remember trying an IS50 with a 20X lens and it was very good! There is actually an IS50 with a 20X lens on ebay right now! Because of its 50mm lens, it won't perform brilliantly in low light, but during the daytime and under most conditions it will be fine - it's also very compact!

Outside of opticron, take a look at the Visionary 60mm scope - it gets some good write ups here -
East of England Binoculars - Visionary V60 Angled

[Hobjob]

Wholeheartedly agree with the fixed eyepiece over zoom.

Opticrom is good value for money (and I am sure there are
lots of reviews).

There are lots of Opticroms around bird reserves!!

The Mighty midget is, IMO, too small unless you are flying
or really pretty decrepid. As noted above 80mm lets in
much more light thatn 60mm - what is the mighty midget,
50mm at most?

But image quality is more important than brightness.

[captaincarot]

i've just found the address pf a scope selling shop on stockport, so trying them put and comparing in my price bracket should be possible after all, things are looking up.

[Cellarman]

I've looked at both the Vanguard and the Bresser and I'm not impressed with either of them. The Opticron MM2 (especially the ED version) is a much better option and if you put a HDF eyepiece on rather than the standard MM2 option then the quality improves no end.

[Cellarman]

Originally Posted by captaincarot

i've just found the address pf a scope selling shop on stockport, so trying them put and comparing in my price bracket should be possible after all, things are looking up.

If you're near to Stockport, you can also try Birdnet Optics, binoculars, telescopes, accessories & books in Buxton.

BTW, I've seen some comments about a larger scope always being brighter than a smaller one. This is definitely not true. Many of the cheaper 80mm scopes are not anything like as bright as the medium priced 60mm scopes! It all comes down to the quality of the lenses and coatings used and the degree of tolerance in setting the lenses into position.