Pholiotona nemoralis/ dentatomarginata

[SheffieldLass]

One and the same or different species? And if a synonym, which should I be using?

I found this back in June. It keys out to P nemoralis using both Funga Nordica and FAN6.

Melanie

[Ditiola]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

One and the same or different species? And if a synonym, which should I be using?

I found this back in June. It keys out to P nemoralis using both Funga Nordica and FAN6.

Melanie

The BMS database says:
Pholiotina nemoralis (Harmaja) Bon 1991 (=Conocybe nemoralis)

I have not been able to access the checklist since the update

Peter

[SheffieldLass]

Yes the Checklist still seems to be very little hit, very much miss ... sometimes I manage to get a connection though, so I keep trying.

And just did get a hit ... it has this for Conocybe dentatomarginata, but C nemoralis is not mentioned either in its own right or as a synonym, but both are listed on the records . I guess because people are submitting records in both those names. It still puts all Pholiotina except P sulcata and P dasypus into Conocybe

[Conocybe dentatomarginata Watling, Notes R. bot. Gdn Edinb. 38(2): 333 (1980)

Conocybe appendiculata f. macrospora Kühner, Encyclop. Mycol. Genre Galera: 149 (1935)

Habitat: On soil in deciduous woodland or scrub.

Notes: Rarely reported.

Distribution: E: !, S: !
Vouchers: England: K(M) 97592

Descriptions, Lists & Icons:
D:, in Hansen, I. & Knudsen, H., Nordic Macromycetes Polyporales, Boletales, Agaricales, Russulales. 2: 474 pp. (1992), p. 273
D:, in Watling, R., British Fungus Flora. Agarics and Boleti: 3 Bolbitiaceae: Agrocybe, Bolbitiusand Conocybe 3: 138 pp. (1982), p. 101

I tend to use the name that is given in the reference book I use, then if the checklist (on my database) wants to convert it, then I let it do it.

Melanie

[SheffieldLass]

Now just checked my database which uses their list ... it has both C nemoralis and C dentatomarginata, doesn't change them to anything else, so would appear to see them a different species.

Melanie

[Chris Yeates]

Hausknecht's 2010 Monograph treats them as varieties:

"Cheilocystidia lageniform with long, cylindrical neck with partly capitately enlarged apex;
spores on average 8.8-11.2 x 4.4-6.0 µm
Pholiotina nemoralis var. dentatomarginata

Cheilocystidia more variable, lageniform, utriform, clavate to subcylindrical;
spores on average 9.0-11.1 x 4.9-6.2 µm
Pholiotina nemoralis var. nemoralis "

with those "differences" I can see why he considers them untenable as separate species . . .

Chris

[SheffieldLass]

Thanks for that Chris. I'll happily settle for P nemoralis as the name and then let you deal with it as you wish when you get my records.

Melanie

[mollisia]

Hello Chris,

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

Hausknecht's 2010 Monograph treats them as varieties:

"Cheilocystidia lageniform with long, cylindrical neck with partly capitately enlarged apex;
spores on average 8.8-11.2 x 4.4-6.0 µm
Pholiotina nemoralis var. dentatomarginata

Cheilocystidia more variable, lageniform, utriform, clavate to subcylindrical;
spores on average 9.0-11.1 x 4.9-6.2 µm
Pholiotina nemoralis var. nemoralis "

with those "differences" I can see why he considers them untenable as separate species . . .

tststs, always this mocking about the basidiomycetologists

You see, there are three different characters which seperates Ph. nemoralis from Ph. dentatomarginata:
The spores are in average shorter (11.1 to 11.2)
The spores are in average wider (6.2 to 6.0)
The cheilos are more variable

What do you want more? Isn't three differences enough to separate on species level?
It so easy to determine them: Just measure some spores until you find one which is in average 11.2 long -> Ph. dentatomarginata. Or you find one which is in average 6.2 µm braod -> Ph. nemoralis.
Or you look whether the Cheilos are more variable or not.



best regards,
Andreas