Unidentified russula from IOW

[Wood Wanderer]

My final ID request for today, found this russula at Ventnor Botanic Gardens on the Isle of Wight in September under pines close to cliffs, originally thought it might be Russula torulosa due to colour of stem but on reflection could be Russula sardonia



Any help gratefully received

[fairplay]

I think we all admit none of us are really Russula experts here, but this is so distinctive I am going for R.torulosa
A simple chemical test would have confirmed, but I wouldn't expect you to be carrying ammonia around with you !

The habitat would be spot on, but if confirmed this would be a new record I assume, for the IoW.
Now wait for someone to put a damper on this by suggesting it is R.sardonia.

Neil.

[Lancashire Lad]

Just to be different, I'm going to suggest Russula fuscorubroides.
This has the right colouration, and R.fuscorubroides is known to be associated with Picea and Pinus.

Regards,
Mike.

[fairplay]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

Just to be different, I'm going to suggest Russula fuscorubroides.
This has the right colouration, and R.fuscorubroides is known to be associated with Picea and Pinus.

Regards,
Mike.

Russula err what ?! Hang on, I'm gonna have to look this one up (Fumblesticks, I've never heard of this one.)

Neil.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by fairplay

Russula err what ?! Hang on, I'm gonna have to look this one up (Fumblesticks, I've never heard of this one.)

Neil.

Ha! - To be honest, were it not for recently getting a copy of Geoffrey Kibby's book "The Genus Russula" - I would never have heard of it either.

(But it does seem to be a reasonable match for the photo and details given).

Although - if the habitat near the cliffs was decidedly alkaline - then that might throw a spanner in the works.

Regards,
Mike.

[fairplay]

I'm assuming you are using Geoff Kibby's Russula book Mike and I must say there is a similarity.

To make things worse, under R.torulosa on page 59, Geoff says "Most likely to be confused with R.sardonia" - he probably never mentioned R.fuscorubroides as it is so rare, but as we all know, newcomers to WAB are not allowed to find rare stuff.

Neil.

EDIT: See you have already replied !
"Although - if the habitat near the cliffs was decidedly alkaline - then that might throw a spanner in the works". Yes, I hadn't though about that - IoW is solid chalk isn't it ?

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

....Although - if the habitat near the cliffs was decidedly alkaline - then that might throw a spanner in the works....

Originally Posted by fairplay

....Yes, I hadn't though about that - IoW is solid chalk isn't it ?

Interestingly, the first record (of the eight) on the FRDBI shows R.fuscorubroides as having been collected from "calcareous loam soil, edges of plantation".

Regards,
Mike.

[diggleken]

This isnt one I know either, so did some rooting about after your suggestions - under Pines, so maybe Russula quelettii?
This from Gower wildlife mentions its similarity to your rare one Mike. Just scroll down a bit.
Gower Wildlife: Larch and Spruce Forest Toadstools
But Russula fuscorubroides does seem darker winey purple.............
Mmhh
Cheers
Ken

[mollisia]

Hello,

Russula queletii would be my first idea too. Russula torulosa is of course also possible, but as far as I know the species (not too well ....) it is usually stouter and more reddish in tinge then this one. Russula fuscorubroides is by most russulogists not seen as a good taxon and falls inrto the variability of torulosa (of course, as always, there are different opinions ...). And last not least R. sardonia also can not be excluded, though the gills look quite white. But that could be due to the foto.
Russula queletii is usually associated with spruce, most often on basic to neutral soil (but not exclusively!), here in Germany almost always accompagnied by Lactarius deterrimus.
Russula sardonia on the other hand is usually associated with pine, usually on acid soil (but again not exclusively!), in Germany very often associated with Lactarius deliciosus.
Russula torulosa is always (to my experience) associated with pine, always on calcareous soil (to my experience), in Germany often associated with Lactarius sanguifluus.
But I admit that we have areas with thin covering of calcaerous soil, where the soil surface is becoming somewhat acid by the fallen needles and by air pollution. Those sites are often beset with spruce and pine (and sometimes fir!), and the soil ranges from calcareous to (superfically) acid. There you have all species of Lactarius sect. Dapetes and you also have all the mentioned three Russula species, growing side by side. Nice game to sort them out after an excursion *gg*

The ammonia reaction would sort out R. sardonia, as it is the only one reacting red with NH3. Only R. cavipes (ass. with Abies alba) has the same reaction.

best regards,
Andreas

[Wood Wanderer]

Many thanks for all your input, having gone back to the original photos I now attach another view, this seems to me to almost "mimic" the photo in Michael Jordan's book and listed as Russula Sardonia



As it cannot be proved to be any of your above suggestions I will opt for sardonia, either way it is a new fungus for my list !!

Thanks all