How species do vary.....?

[alindsay]

I was so amazed & thrilled to find this, Ascocoryne cylichnium, a 1st for me and made the ID by way of Roger Phillips (presuming I am right)...





and then I found a specimen shaped like this and wondered if I had only seen this, would I ever have identified it?



......how does anyone ever get to be the definitive expert?

[Chris Yeates]

hi

what makes you so sure you have A. cylichnium? you may even have two species there - see: http://mycoweb-stv.narod.ru/fungi/Su...N_20091013.jpg for what A. sarcoides can look like, for example

you ask "how does anyone ever get to be the definitive expert?" - I don't know about that, but I identify Ascocoryne species (in the sexual state like this) by checking the asci and the spores (sorry!, but true . . . . )

cheers

Chris

[Ditiola]

Hi

I think you ID is probably right, However as you will see from Roger Philips there are two species of Ascocoryne that are very similar A.cylichnium and A.sarcoides. Roger Philips says A.cylinchium grows more cup shaped, but as you have rightly pointed out you can not always rely on fungi growing to their recognised shapes, but in general A. cylichnium tends to grow to a larger size, but to be absolutely certain you would need to measure the spores, this is a quick and easy process if you have a microscope.

The genus Ascoryne is quite easy to establish if you have the fertile fruiting bodies (sexual stage) as there are not really any other discomycetes this size and this colour. However, problems do occur when you have the asexual stage as there are several other fungi that look very similar

Peter

[alindsay]

That's a fabulous photo Chris and could give cause to doubt, though thanks Ditiola for giving some clarity.

I can see that I am being naive to believe I can identify every fungus by visual means alone, but I can't quite bring myself to do the spore thing yet.

If I did go further, when is the best time to collect spores from an Ascocoryne specimen as it didn't look ready yesterday to give up its secrets?

Thanks for your time on this matter.

[Ditiola]

Originally Posted by alindsay

That's a fabulous photo Chris and could give cause to doubt, though thanks Ditiola for giving some clarity.

I can see that I am being naive to believe I can identify every fungus by visual means alone, but I can't quite bring myself to do the spore thing yet.

If I did go further, when is the best time to collect spores from an Ascocoryne specimen as it didn't look ready yesterday to give up its secrets?

Thanks for your time on this matter.

Hi

I do not think spore colour is such an important a character as it is in Agarics (Toadstools). But I could be wrong; I will put my hard hat on and wait to be corrected.

With Agarics it is very easy to collect spores by placing a cap upside down on some paper and covering to keep from drying, but with ascomycetes it is not quite so easy, but an upturned fruiting body may deposit sufficient spores to see with the naked eye if you are lucky. However there may be a sufficient number of spores to observe and measure with the microscope even if they are not very visible to the eye. Although very often some ascomycetes can be reluctant to fire of any spores at all, but a squash of tissue under the microscope will reveal the immature spores and all the other exiting structures.



Peter

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by alindsay

That's a fabulous photo Chris and could give cause to doubt, though thanks Ditiola for giving some clarity.

I can see that I am being naive to believe I can identify every fungus by visual means alone, but I can't quite bring myself to do the spore thing yet.

If I did go further, when is the best time to collect spores from an Ascocoryne specimen as it didn't look ready yesterday to give up its secrets?

Thanks for your time on this matter.

hi

you can usually identify a fungus by "visual" means, but not necessarily with the naked eye

usually if the fungus is as mature as yours, then a squash of a small part of the fertile portion will produce huge numbers of asci and ascospores - like:


cheers

Chris

[alindsay]

The world of spores sure looks an exciting world to explore for their own beauty as the photos posted by Chris show, as well as helping with IDs.

Thank Chris & Ditiola for giving me some of your valuable time & raising my interest in this area.

......and I shall now go around breathing on those spore shooting fungi (tip from Roger Phillips) just to see what happens. Microscope may follow .........