owl pellet coprobia type help!

diggleken · #1 (**permalink**) 29-12-2011, 07:02 PM

Hi all,
this on an owl pellet, probably long-eared, under roost in pine thicket last week. the pellets have been there for quite a few weeks.
Its been in the greenhouse a few days, but as soon as in there, this developed and its lost me.
Sort of Coprobia spp ish, with coronet cup edging and slightly granular in texture but also with a gelatinous look, little if any stem and with dotted inner surface, vaguely purple lilac coloured too.

Grateful for any help/steer, even to genus, I cant find anything close on this substrate without a stalk.
edit, sorry, forgot size - about mollisia cinerea .
In yorkshire Chris.

Cheers
Ken

fairplay · #2 (**permalink**) 29-12-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggleken

Hi all,
this on an owl pellet, probably long-eared, under roost in pine thicket last week. the pellets have been there for quite a few weeks.
Its been in the greenhouse a few days, but as soon as in there, this developed and its lost me.
Sort of Coprobia spp ish, with coronet cup edging and slightly granular in texture but also with a gelatinous look, little if any stem and with dotted inner surface, vaguely purple lilac coloured too.

Grateful for any help/steer, even to genus, I cant find anything close on this substrate without a stalk.
edit, sorry, forgot size - about mollisia cinerea .
In yorkshire Chris.

Cheers
Ken

Whatever this turns out to be, I'm sure Kew will be interested as I doubt very much they have anything at all on owl pellets - especially Long Eared Owl.

BTW - what sort of lighting due you use for close up work to retain that 'natural' colour (the 'vaguely purple/lilac' look) ?

Neil.

Chris Yeates · #3 (**permalink**) 29-12-2011, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggleken

Hi all,
this on an owl pellet, probably long-eared, under roost in pine thicket last week. the pellets have been there for quite a few weeks.
Its been in the greenhouse a few days, but as soon as in there, this developed and its lost me.
Sort of Coprobia spp ish, with coronet cup edging and slightly granular in texture but also with a gelatinous look, little if any stem and with dotted inner surface, vaguely purple lilac coloured too.

Grateful for any help/steer, even to genus, I cant find anything close on this substrate without a stalk.
edit, sorry, forgot size - about mollisia cinerea .
In yorkshire Chris.

Cheers
Ken

Looks like an Ascobolus* to me - be very interested in seeing it and could probably name it for you (no way it can be done macroscopically mind)

cheers

Chris

edit *Ascobolus brassicae is the classic species on owl pellets - but this doesn't look quite right . . . .

diggleken · #4 (**permalink**) 29-12-2011, 10:06 PM

In the greenhouse neil, just natural light, sometimes with a plastic plant tray over to cut out glare.
I'll let it dry Chris then get it over to you in the new year, thanks a lot.
BTW, If I dont get a response from Bryn about the Lichenomphalia/Omphalina. can you 'do' that too???
Thanks for input both of you.
Cheers
Ken

flaxton · #5 (**permalink**) 30-12-2011, 12:08 AM

Ken
I would agree with Chris. I had Ascobolus crenulatus on a pellet earlier this year and yours looks very similar. It will be interesting to see what Chris finds.

Mal

diggleken · #6 (**permalink**) 30-12-2011, 10:25 AM

Thanks Mal,
yours does look close, I bet youre right, but looking at images on the web, some Ascobulus types seem similar macro wise, so as you say, interesting what Chris finds.
Bioimages has Ascobolus crenulatus more associated with bird poo, with A brassicae not so much, but interestingly more with rodents, incl mice poo - and as this was an owl with lots of furry bits in the pellet, maybe rodent poo coming through as the real substrate.............?
Oh, and purpleish is in the literature for spores too, so that may be the colour cast in the pics.
Spores for these two seem to my untrained eye to be either round or ovalish - I might just try to have a look myself. ha ha.

Cheers
Ken

Chris Yeates · #7 (**permalink**) 30-12-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diggleken

. . . .
Bioimages has Ascobolus crenulatus more associated with bird poo, with A brassicae not so much, but interestingly more with rodents, incl mice poo - and as this was an owl with lots of furry bits in the pellet, maybe rodent poo coming through as the real substrate.............?

van Brummelen in his monograph lists the following as substrata for crenulatus

"On dung of grouse, pheasant, partridge, pigeon, raven, deer, porcupine, fox, dog, and rabbit, but also on paper saturated with dog urine, on rotten leaves of oak and on rotten leaves and stalks of herb[aceous plant]s."

Chris Yeates · #8 (**permalink**) 12-01-2012, 09:49 PM

hi

finally able today to have a look at the portion of the pellet Ken has sent me. It was incredibly difficult to find the dried apothecia, so small had they shrunk. I carefully re-hydrated what looked like one and I had clearly hit lucky!

in water:

and in Cotton Blue in Lactophenol:

showing a nice range of immature through to mature (at left) ascospores

this is Ascobolus brassicae - as I mentioned above, the 'classic' pellet member of the genus; it clearly has quite a wide habitat range - as the name suggests it was originally collected on a rotten cabbage stem; see - http://www.librifungorum.org/Image.a...gorum8-513.jpg - it has also been recorded on both carnivore and herbivore dung

With regard to Ken's excellent macro images I thought this might be a good addition to the ASCOFrance website (providing I could get some decent micro-images) - and lo and behold when I looked at the site today this is what I saw: Pezizomycetes - Pezizales

strange how these things happen

cheers

Chris

flaxton · #9 (**permalink**) 12-01-2012, 10:10 PM

No arguing with those spores Chris. Nice to have a definitive id.

Mal

diggleken · #10 (**permalink**) 13-01-2012, 01:32 PM

Brilliant stuff Chris, great work, thanks a lot.

And thanks for the glowing photo credit - what a shame you were a couple of days late for the french site, hey ho. yours and Mine are better..............

Interesting that , if you notice, they have their item as also from raptor pellet, but not which one - they also 'grew' it, it seems in a humid chamber - mine had the fungus already showing on it from in the wild, but showed better when in the greenhouse (my humid chamber!).
And you stretch my latin skills too - but isnt it lovely to understand, and nice to know it is described as ''violaceo'', so my colour cast on my pics was accurate.
If you want to use my pics at all, feel free, I'll post a couple of the best on WAB soon.
Did I send you the details to record it? If not, let me know.
Cheers
Ken