Amanitas - confused...

[MattPrince]

Hi,

Here are a few pictures (not the best quality I'm afraid) of amanita species from Devon recently, the first immediately stood out amidst many other muscaria, rubescens and citrina on a dartmoor site amongst mixed deciduous woodland, predominantly birch and oak. I thought it was a. pantherina at the time, but fungi nordica suggests that a. pantherina should not have a strongly striate ring - which this specimen has.



No sign of any red blushing, despite some damage, very white velar fragments.


Then, today in open parkland amongst beech, a whole horde of amanita, two of which I present here. These were very similar to the first in some respects, however the ring was not striate, indeed if anything it was slightly fleecy and had not persisted on all the speciments. Most showed pronounced guttering of the volva sack. None had any red flush, nor significant smell. All of which makes me think these are probably a. pantherina.



Anyway... I'd welcome comments - is the striation of the ring a strong character against a. pantherina? Can the velar fragments of a.excelsa ever get this white?

Any other characters I should be concentrating on, or looking at?

Thanks for looking,
Matt

[waxcap]

Hi Matt

For the first one have a look at Grey spotted Amanita - Amanita Spissa which has a striated ring and is sometimes confused with a Panther Cap.

The second two look and sound very much like A. pantherina to me.

This is not an identification just a suggestion.

regards

Dave

[NickCantle]

^ what Dave said!

I'm not sure about the top one but the bottom two are indeed A. pantherina; a species that took me a few years to find. Absolutely wonderful find it was

To add Matt, in A. pantherina, striation of the cap margin (obviously on specimens with open caps!) is a prominent characteristic. Your second image shows this in textbook form.

[MattPrince]

I did (and still do) consider grey-spotted amanita a possibility for the first one, it's a mushroom we do see occasionally in Devon, however, in my experience it isn't normally that dark, nor are its spots that cleanly white, but I guess it could be an exceptional example ~ that or I've been misidentifying pantherina !. I'll add the striated cap margin as an important character to check when considering rubescens/spissa/pantherina.

Another thing that added to my confusion was that, amongst the latter set, a small number had slightly grubby velar fragments - presumably pure white warts that had discoloured.

Many thanks for your help chaps.

Cheers,
Matt

[mushruman]

thanks for this!

[Mrs Mushroom]

Hi, as there is already a thread, I thought I would add my find to it...what I.D. do you guys think?

ref:http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/fo...9-post748.html














also as an amateur, am I getting confused with a ring & a veil or are they one & the same? & can someone please give me a definition of striated & striation of the cap margin?! Thank you

[fairplay]

Here we can clearly see the contrast between the white damaged part of the cap and the grey velar remains on the cap so this has to be A. excelsa var. spissa. (I hope !)

Neil.

[NickCantle]

Seconded Neil, spot on IMO

[flaxton]

Originally Posted by Mrs Mushroom

also as an amateur, am I getting confused with a ring & a veil or are they one & the same? & can someone please give me a definition of striated & striation of the cap margin?! Thank you

There are two types of veil. The universal veil covers the whole fruit-body before it emerges and as the fungi expands it can be seen as small remnants on the cap as in your photos and also as a bag at the base of the stem.
The second or partial veil is a layer of skin protecting the gills and when the cap opens fully it can be left around the stem and becomes the "ring".

On the Panther Cap the upper surface of the ring is smooth but in Amanita excelsa there are ridges where it was up against the gills. This can also clearly be seen in your photos. The upper surface of the cap can also show the gills through by being ridged towards the edge. A excelsa can be very finely striate towards the cap edge but A pantherina is more strongly striate.
Hope I explained that ok.

Mal

[MattPrince]

First off thank you Mrs Mushroom, what a cracking example of its type!

I'm immediately struck by how unlike my first amanita it is - not just in colouration, but especially in the excelsa's strong striations above the ring and the floccose nature of the stipe just below it.

Is it possible that the ring on pantherina *tends* not to be striate, but might show evidence of striations along the edge where it was pressed tightest against the gills?

In which case my first example may well be pantherina after all.

It does raise the question - why is the upper ring on an excelsa strongly striate.. Is the gill deeper at this point than on a typical pantherina perhaps? Thus pressing tighter against the inner veil, or is it that the pantherina ring is more flexibile in nature and doesn't retain the marks?

Interesting I think - thanks all.

Matt