waxcap spp help

[diggleken]

That time of year coming up.
And OK OK, I know, microscopy!
But before I dabble with that, is this close to H. cantharellus?

Unimproved grassland on moor edge, acidic.
Small, with Irregular cap edge, whiteish decurrent gills in strong contrast to cap colour and sort of grainy cap with concolourous stipe are leading me that way macro speaking!
Cheers
Ken

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by diggleken

.... is this close to H. cantharellus?....

That looks a good shout to me Ken!

Based on macro features alone, and going on Key D within David Boertmann's "The Genus Hygrocybe -2nd. revised edition" -
"Fruitbodies with bright red, orange, yellow, lilac, or rose colours, stem and cap dry, (cap smooth, fibrillose or squamulose)", gives:-

1 - Cap finely squamulose, tomentose, or radially fibrillose (2)
2 - Cap squamulose or tomentose (3)
3 - Gills adnate to decurrent, stem usually < 4mm broad (5)
5 - Gills decurrent (7)
7 - Squamules or tomentum concolorous with underlying tissue:- H.cantharellus.

Regards,
Mike.

[diggleken]

Thanks a lot Mike!
I was using Boertmann's 1st edition to get there, to the same conclusion, but the 2nd cant have changed that much............
We cant both be wrong can we?
Cheers
Ken

[SheffieldLass]

I haven't got the 2nd edition yet. What does it say about H cantharellus / H turunda /H coccineocrenata? He wondered in the first edition whether they were all the same. Has he come to any different view in his new book?

He wrote:
"The 3 squamulose taxa with decurrent lamellae are very closely related, and, in fact, all collections cannot be identified with certainty. I occasionally find collections which are intermediates between H. turunda and H. cantharellus. I have once seen carpophores looking like H. cantharellus and H. coccineocrenata, apparently originating from the same mycelium. The consequence is to treat them as a single species with three varieties. However, until further studies have been carried out, I prefer the classical view of these taxa."

About a fortnight ago I found a group of what would appear to be H cantharellus about a foot away from a group of H turunda.

Melanie

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

I haven't got the 2nd edition yet. What does it say about H cantharellus / H turunda /H coccineocrenata? He wondered in the first edition whether they were all the same. Has he come to any different view in his new book? . . . . .

Melanie

he keeps them as separate species (though admits they differ little other than colour-wise) - with a note re H. cantharellus "New molecular analyses indicate that North American and European material differs sufficiently to be separated on species level. If this is accepted, the name H. lepida must be applied to the European species"

Chris

PS:

Originally Posted by diggleken

That time of year coming up.
And OK OK, I know, microscopy! . . . . . .
Small, with Irregular cap edge, whitish decurrent gills in strong contrast to cap colour and sort of grainy cap with concolourous stipe are leading me that way macro speaking!
Cheers
Ken

actually no Ken - not with these fellahs - all down to unsatisfactory subtleties of colour; no decent micro-characters . . . . .

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

he keeps them as separate species (though admits they differ little other than colour-wise) - with a note re H. cantharellus "New molecular analyses indicate that North American and European material differs sufficiently to be separated on species level. If this is accepted, the name H. lepida must be applied to the European species"

Chris

Thanks ... (and no thanks, I don't want to have to learn another name )

Melanie

[diggleken]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

he keeps them as separate species (though admits they differ little other than colour-wise) - with a note re H. cantharellus "New molecular analyses indicate that North American and European material differs sufficiently to be separated on species level. If this is accepted, the name H. lepida must be applied to the European species"

Chris

PS:



actually no Ken - not with these fellahs - all down to unsatisfactory subtleties of colour; no decent micro-characters . . . . .

Ta Chris - I did think the spore shapes and sizes were sort of overlapping and indistinguishable.
Good news then....................
Cheers evrybody for input so far, interesting!
Ken

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by diggleken

Ta Chris - I did think the spore shapes and sizes were sort of overlapping and indistinguishable.
Good news then..................... . . .
Ken

how is the absence of decent characters 'good news' ? at least the things you can hardly see in the field do have decent characters . . . see:Micro fungi

lol

Chris

[diggleken]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

how is the absence of decent characters 'good news' ? at least the things you can hardly see in the field do have decent characters . . . see:Micro fungi

lol

Chris

ha, got you!
It's a bit of a contrast isnt it though, that tinies (and you should know, joking apart, I love em) often have more than biggies.
Its just that I'm still revving up to microscopy Chris, I dont have time to devote yet.
Cheers
Ken