ID Help Please (Possibly Orbilia sp.)

[Lancashire Lad]

Found last Saturday on a very rotten and wet fallen trunk.

I was initially thinking that this may be an Orbilia - possibly O. delicatula or O.xanthostigma.

I've had them under the microscope - but just cannot find any asci or spores.

The whole fruitbody appears to be abundant in sterile cystidia like cells, pretty much cylindro-clavate in shape, full of granule/guttule like contents - but no signs whatsoever of any asci mixed in with them.

The largest of the fruitbodies in the photo is approx. 3mm across.

The second photo shows some different fruitbodies which were growing immediately adjacent to, and amongst those in the first photo. (One of these can be seen showing through the algae at lower right corner of first photo).

I've never seen anything like these before, and am not at all sure whether they are possibly a different stage of the same fungus or if they are being attacked by another fungus/mould.

The inner surfaces of the open one seem to be very similar in colour to the flat fruitbodies in the first photo. (Maybe a coincidence, but I thought that these may have a relevance in identification). I did bring some of those home too, but they rotted away before I had chance to get them under the scope.



Any thoughts / pointers / suggestions towards ID much appreciated.

Regards,
Mike.

[FungiJohn]

Hi Mike

I don't wish to put you off, BUT there are at least 400 known Orbilia species and even worse, it was suggested on the BMS by Hans Otto Baral from Germany that you could well have 'several' Orbilia species growing together.

He even suggested looking at each apothecia just to be certain

Good luck

John

[Chris Yeates]

without doubt two different fungi

John is correct in suggesting that Orbilia is a potential minefield - the species are mostly clear-cut, however descriptions of many are still only published in abstruse publications - plus you need to look at them carefully at x1000 or above with oil immersion

you say "I've had them under the microscope - but just cannot find any asci or spores" I know what you mean, I've been there, but you're probably missing details, trust me! have a look at Images of Orbiliomycetes (Ascomycetes) and see how general appearance / colour mean little when it comes to trying to name them . . .

John and I have now been lucky enough to meet Hans-Otto - "Zotto" and have seen him at work - trust me there are decades of painstaking study and drawings behind him - he found several species of Orbilia new to Yorkshire within a few hundred metres of our base

'nuff said

Chris

[Lancashire Lad]

Thanks guys.

Oh well, I'll slide these quietly into the burgeoning folder of unidentified's - which resides immediately beside the Recycle Bin.

Regards,
Mike.