Help with identification

[Nutty]

Sorry for late reply but many thanks to everyone who posted. I thought I had replied earlier but I have a similar thread going in the wildlife garden forum (which was posted before I was re-directed here) so I have got a bit confused We have decided to go ahead with the new planting. The felled conifer showed no signs of sickness, it had just outgrown its position in the garden and was shading light from the other plants, so we will keep our fingers crossed.

[fairplay]

Nobby,

Normally I'd try to translate what Hamadryad has said into a language the layperson could understand, but assuming you are unfamiliar with the fungal world, I think you'd still be confused.

At least we have established you do not have Honey Fungus, the source of all this confusion stems from when you mentioned in your second comment that you have looked at photos and you think it a worst case scenario.
It's a pity you never elaborated on this. Still, it's all irrelevant now anyway.

As we have unintentionally come onto the subject of Honey Fungus, I'm wondering how practical or worthwhile collating all the articles on Honey Fungus would be as this subject keeps cropping up again and again with no real answers.

Armillatox, a sterilant based on plant phenols, is usually recommended by nurseries, but in my opinion it is an absolute waste of time and money and you will need to use gallons of the stuff with no guarantee it will work and usually it doesn't.
There is still so much more to learn, for example 'we' have had HF for at least 15 years now, no fruiting bodies have shown for the last 2 seasons, yet only yesterday I noticed a cultivated Euphorbia sp. (Spurge) had died in this garden I tend and upon pulling it up, the roots has the tell tell signs of skin peeling easily exposing the white mycelium clearly visible underneath - thus confirming that Honey Fungus is still prevalent in the garden.

It's 'hands on' experience like this that needs to be documented to build up our knowledge of HF and for all I know this attack on Euphorbia may have been unheard of before as this is not really a shrub and definitely no tree.

I know a wabber came up with a list from the RHS a few years ago showing what plants are affected and which show resistance and if all posts like this could somehow be brought together, it could be a valuable resource for future researchers.

Perhaps I'm asking too much from the admin ?

Neil.

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by fairplay

A garden I look after has had Honey Fungus for 15 years (maybe longer) and although fruiting bodies have failed to show for 2 years now, shrubs and replacement trees continue to die. . . .

Unfortunately it's a holiday home for a very wealthy family, and none was in a hurry to take the drastic action needed to literally GET TO THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM and the fungus spread.
Matters did not help when various family members came down to stay and fill up the gaps (polluted soil) with more susceptible plants which I was forced to relocate to other non-affected parts of the garden but it was too late for they too had become infected and I had spread the fungus even more.

YOU CANNOT RUSH HONEY FUNGUS, you have to let nature take its course and let it exhaust itself of all underground nutrients, but if you can dig up ALL nearby roots, that will certainly help.
I dug up most, but not all, and the owners were in too much of a hurry to replant and we are now back to square one I fear.

BUT AT NO TIME have I come across anything looking like that mass of whatever it is shown in your original photos. Yes we have had Armillaria mellea fruiting bodies, and yes I have found plenty of roots showing the classic signs of very loose skin with a layer of white mycelium underneath.

We have no conifers though, and it could well be this is what Honey Fungus does to conifer roots, but I doubt it.
You also do not say why you felled the tree - was it beginning to look poorly or did you simply just want to replace it ?

Pete is right that fungi are part and parcel of a balanced ecosystem but where it enters a garden (wildlife friendly or not) the balance is always in favour of A.mellea and I would argue the list of plants which are not affected is very short.

If this mass does turn out to be Honey Fungus, almost certainly the roots should peel easily showing white mycelium underneath. If you cannot find this, then you can breath more easily (Maybe) !

Neil.

EDIT: In all this, I forgot to mention the well documented black 'shoelaces' which is the fungi's* means of spreading, but surprisingly in all areas of the garden I dug up, I never came across any but I'm sure it was present.

* Help me out here someone, should this correctly be fungi's or funguses or fungus's - I don't want Chris pouncing on my back !

one should always remember that 'honey fungus' is a complex; the lawn by the house where I live is at least 160 years old; I have seen Armillaria fruitbodies in two years of the 15 or so I have lived here

and at no time during those 15 years has there been any indication of tree, shrub or forb death . . .

I repeat . . . once you start to request 'expert/professional help' the likelihood of a diagnosis of a problem will increase dramatically

I remember many years ago a TV programme in which a number of people with 20-20 vision were sent to opticians . . . . it was surprising (?) how many were told they needed glasses

C

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Nutty

I have been re-directed from Wildlife Gardening to the fungus section in the hope that someone here might be able to help me.

We felled a conifer this weekend with a view to planting up the area with wildlife friendly shrubs and plants and found the roots and the surrounding area covered with a sort of stringy fungus. Can anyone identify it and, if so, is it ok to plant up the area or should it be treated before planting?

Nearly all the conifers around here (and there are a lot, well I'm talking Wykeham Forest, Dalby Forest etc ) have oodles of white mycelium around the base of their trunks and in/on the surrounding soil. The Forestry Commission are not bothered. The trees are very healthy. I suspect the vast majority of it is the mycelia of beneficial mycorrhizal fungi. (Oops, too late in the evening to work out what should be plural and what singular in the last sentence!)

[fairplay]

Chris,
You don't mention which species of Armillaria in that garden - if it is one of the less virulent species then could that be why you have seen nothing die off ?

I think in the case of the infected garden I look after, all we can do is keep replacing plants as they die off. The female joint owner of the house was yesterday talking about taking ALL the plants out and grassing the area and using tubs to create a sort of screen from the pavement.

I would then recommend at least 5 years before any replanting is considered and even then that would be dependent upon the garden next door not having it there too.

The RHS say Birch is very susceptible to attack by HF, yet being a weed on the nearby heathland I used 6 of these as 'sacrificial plants' to provide some sort of cover from the footpath which goes past the most infected border.
They were all about 4 - 5 feet tall, have been in for 3 years now and as yet, seem quite healthy - another mystery !

Neil.

[hamadryad]

Originally Posted by fairplay

Chris,
You don't mention which species of Armillaria in that garden - if it is one of the less virulent species then could that be why you have seen nothing die off ?

I think in the case of the infected garden I look after, all we can do is keep replacing plants as they die off. The female joint owner of the house was yesterday talking about taking ALL the plants out and grassing the area and using tubs to create a sort of screen from the pavement.

I would then recommend at least 5 years before any replanting is considered and even then that would be dependent upon the garden next door not having it there too.

The RHS say Birch is very susceptible to attack by HF, yet being a weed on the nearby heathland I used 6 of these as 'sacrificial plants' to provide some sort of cover from the footpath which goes past the most infected border.
They were all about 4 - 5 feet tall, have been in for 3 years now and as yet, seem quite healthy - another mystery !

Neil.

a healthy and unstressed tree wont be effected, according to gerrit Keizer armilaria detects stress hormones in roots and the rhizomorphs grow upto half a metre per year towards the direction of the hormones.

[fairplay]

Originally Posted by hamadryad

a healthy and unstressed tree wont be effected, according to gerrit Keizer armilaria detects stress hormones in roots and the rhizomorphs grow upto half a metre per year towards the direction of the hormones.

Dr Roland Fox (Armillaria Root Rot: Biology and Control of Honey Fungus) talks of this in more depth, but is careful not to say a healthy and unstressed tree 'won't be effected'.
There is still much to learn about Honey Fungus.

Neil.

[Nutty]

I sent the photos of to the RHS as I am a member and have just received their reply which you might find interesting:

"Thank you for you enquiry and soil sample that you sent to Wisley recently.

The white substance is mycelium of a saprophytic fungus. These saprophytes perform the useful task of converting dead organic material, such as leaves and roots, into nutrient rich humus which is beneficial to plant root growth. Therefore, it is not necessary to treat this mycelium and the only disadvantage it may have is that it can hinder penetration of water into the soil and limit the amount available to plant roots. However, gently forking over the beds will help to allow water to penetrate. I enclose our leaflet on saprophytic fungi, which does discuss these points.

Thank you again for your enquiry and I hope the information is useful.

Yours sincerely

Iwona Burdon
Plant Pathologist"