Lepista flaccida and Clitocybe gibba

[BROCSMAN]

Can someone enlighten me on how to distinguish between these two? I can't manage it from descriptions in books or from photos. Is there a clear and easily recognisable difference?

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by BROCSMAN

Can someone enlighten me on how to distinguish between these two? I can't manage it from descriptions in books or from photos. Is there a clear and easily recognisable difference?

yes - but you probably won't thank me for this

the Lepista has subglobose warty spores; the Clitocybe - or following Harmaja in Funga Nordica, the Infundibulicybe - has unornamented tear-shaped spores

as FRDBI points out: Species data - British fungi there has been confusion here in the past (because people didn't check the spores!)

Chris

[BROCSMAN]

Thanks Chris. At least I know what I've got to do now, and I've got an answer for people who keep telling me they can tell the difference just by looking at them!

[Ken Burgess]

Originally Posted by BROCSMAN

I've got an answer for people who keep telling me they can tell the difference just by looking at them!

... which is that they must be very familiar with both species.

It is certainly possible to tell these two species apart in the field, though maybe not easy with an inexperienced eye. And this is where the difficulty comes. To gain experience in telling the two apart you either need someone with you all the time who knows the differences or you need to take samples back and check the spores to confirm your suspicions until you get the hang of it.

The cap colours are sometimes quite different, sometimes only subtly so. The texture of the cap cuticle is usually telling, being somewhat smoother in Lepista flaccida (and sometimes appearing somewhat shiny, particularly in photos). The gill colour is also helpful. But it's hard to explain without having both specimens to hand.

Ken

[BROCSMAN]

Thanks Ken

Could you say a bit more about the differences in the gills? Are the gills of one usually paler than the other for example?

As you say, experience is everything, and there's never an expert around when you need one.

[Ken Burgess]

Originally Posted by BROCSMAN

Thanks Ken

Could you say a bit more about the differences in the gills? Are the gills of one usually paler than the other for example?

Yes. Paler in Clitocybe gibba and there is usually some of the cap colour in the gills of Lepista flaccida.

Ken

[BROCSMAN]

I found these yesterday. I think C. gibba is on the left, and L. flaccida on the right.

Comments please?

[Ken Burgess]

The one on the right is definitely Lepista flaccida.

As for the one on the left, it looks rather non-descript (or to be more accurate, I haven't got a clue, other than Clitocybe-ish), so I'd be getting out the microscope for that one.

Ken

PS The photo showing the cap surface shows what I mean about Lepista flaccida appearing somewhat shiny in photos.

[BROCSMAN]

Which is what I did. Not great photos I'm afraid, but the teardrop shape of the L. flaccida is reasonably clear. The other spores look round/oval, and are lumpy/warty, which seems to agree with C. gibba.

Interestingly, (for me) as they have dried the gills of the one on the left have become clearly paler than the one on the right.

Thanks for the reply.

[Ken Burgess]

Originally Posted by BROCSMAN

the teardrop shape of the L. flaccida is reasonably clear. The other spores look round/oval, and are lumpy/warty, which seems to agree with C. gibba.

I'm guessing you mean the other way round, because Lepista flaccida has the warty spores. Teardrop shaped spores are characteristic of many different species of Clitocybe. If find Clitocybe can be hard to pin down without going through the full range of characters, including smell, taste, colour of the cap and gills, together with other microscopic characters, particularly the structure of the cap cuticle.

Originally Posted by BROCSMAN

Interestingly, (for me) as they have dried the gills of the one on the left have become clearly paler than the one on the right.

The specimen on the left does look a bit waterlogged and like it would dry out to a paler colour, which is one reason why I am not sure about it. Clitocybe gibba doesn't tend to have a hygrophanous cap, except perhaps in older specimens i.e. it doesn't tend to dry out to a paler colour, unlike some other species.

Ken