Clarity of the 'no edibles' rule!

[cowshill]

First of all, thanks Nick for asking for a clarification of the rule. Your request was simple, but with the near firestorm of response I suspect that at times you may have wished you'd never made that post!

It's taken a lot of reading to see whether your question has actually been answered, but I believe it has. The original sticky includes the statement, "future posts requesting information or making reference to edibility will be removed," and I think a lot of us wondered actually how restrictive "making reference to edibility" was meant to be taken. In page two of this thread John rephrased that to, "Any thread seeking advice on edibility in relation to an 'image' will be removed;" a much narrower statement and one which I take it currently to be the sole prohibition.

Unfortunately, in working through this thread I also came away with some sadness at reading quite a bit of text that seemed to me to be definite put-downs of those of us whose enjoyment of our natural heritage includes gathering edible mushrooms. This was quite often coupled with references to the scientific nature of this forum, which it seems we epicures are, to a degree, polluting.

Could I just point out that WAB is not a scientific site? It is simply a site about the wonders of our natural environment, and it's here for everyone who wants to enjoy and protect that wild heritage, regardless of whether that desire springs more from a scientific or a sensual source.

I'll never be interested in microscopic investigation of fungi, but I do have a desire (which I know can never be completely fulfilled) to be able to put a name to every fungus I see as I walk through my local woods. Learning about fungi has added another dimension to my love of natural things. The fact that some of them are delicious and that I can enjoy them without harm to the fungus itself is a delightful bonus. And since I'm out there every single day anyway (dogs do have to be walked!) this delightful addition to the larder has a carbon footprint of exactly zero.

So please, scientists, if you have to skip through several bolete posts that are not of interest to you, do so without an unkind thought. I have to skip through quite a few posts filled with microscopic images of spores that have no meaning to me. But I don't mind; we're all in it together, and if we stick together we just might find a way to save the planet.

'Nuff said.

- Jim

[NickCantle]

Originally Posted by cowshill

First of all, thanks Nick for asking for a clarification of the rule. Your request was simple, but with the near firestorm of response I suspect that at times you may have wished you'd never made that post!

Ta Jim, my first post was a post of exactly what I meant without it spiraling out of control and talking about death and lawyers! I do regret it now though, it's just gone to pot

Ah, I'm not too bothered about it to be fair, I can live without it- I was just a little concerned that misinterpretation of the rule may lead to a loss of members and a general bad feeling about the forum. As someone said to me recently, I think the thread has run its course now, it's just becoming over dramatic and 'stuff'.

I'm out

Nick

[brendaward]

Totally agree with Jim!

[Mike o' Rhizae]

I would just like to dissociate myself from the imposter Mike O'Phagist (see p2) to whom I am not related in any way

Although I have collected for the table on a few occasions, I think the only sensible position with respect to complete beginners is that wild fungi should never be eaten unless identified in situ (and not over the internet) by an expert!

So the current WAB policy seems appropriate.

The fact that the understanding of the toxicology of fungi continually changes (eg. Brown Rollrim, chicken of the Woods on different trees, tricholoma equestre) makes it even more risky.

Mike

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Klaas Reißmann

Hi everybody,

I now read WAB since a few days and thought I never would answere a discussion. It's because I'm from Germany and maybe my way to see things is totally different to the british view which might bring me into trouble. On the other hand I'm more or less disputatious (I hope that's the right word ) and do have my own view and think there might be aspects that are not uninterresting, even I'm "only" German.

I didn't read all of the thread yet. It's a bit hard for me and I always notice when I read or speak english, that I loose my own language and can't remember many words within a few minutes of reading which makes it more difficult to speak english. That for excuse if I do say something someone else did before. In this case just ignore me.

To talk about collecting (what ever) in a forum is sometimes useful, sometimes not. It depends on the users and on the goal of the forum and maybe your own view. So I think you can be talking about the fact that you're a collector. Why not. But I think one should be thinking twice to talk about a location where he found something interresting..., rare species. I wouldn't do so, because the danger is to big, that some creeps will have a look for it, collect it and therefor might work on it's extinction in this location.

With the funghi it is a bit more difficult in my mind. Many people like eating funghi more or less, but just a few of those go out and collect them. And only a few of those who go out collecting is able to determine the funghi they found by their own. I did it with my parents (collecting funghi) when I was young (somewhat 10 years old). We collected funghi, quite a lot, and brought them over to someone who was able to determine, to find out, that some of the funghi were not eatable and because of those we could throw all the others away, too. What's the use of this? NOTHING!

In my mind this is kind of dangerous for the funghi-species. Every so called lover of funghi can go out and collect funghi, because there is someone who can tell the dangerous and the good, eatable ones. So many more people will go out and collect funghi, expecially if they don't have to pay, because there is someone in an forum who does it for no money.

The problem is, that there are some people who just like to take fotographs of funghi and are not able to determine those funghi (it is the same with beetles, but I guess no one would eat beetles and search them therefor ). They would need some help and they should get this help. But how can you keep those appart from those who just want to eat funghi?

It is difficult for those who like funghi to decide to help or not to help. But I think that it is important to find out those "black sheeps" (do you say this in English for the bad guys?) so you can help the others. I think that those people who want to eat funghi are ok, as long as they determine their funghi by their own. No risk, no fun I say. They should be doing their way on their own like anyone else does. But I think you never ever should be talking in a forum about a location of a rare species, especially if it is a much loved one.

Regards
Klaas

P.S.: I hope it is possible to understand me.

Welcome Klaas

Easy to understand you, and an interesting post from someone from a country which has a bigger tradition of collecting fungi than Britain has. I agree with your views. I'd not thought hard about the behaviour patterns of people when there are others who will check through their pickings and sort out the edible from the inedible/poisonous. But yes, it is very likely to lead to collection/over-collection of all sorts of fungi, and a lot of unnecessary wastage.

One of the potential problems we have in Britain is that we are a heavily populated country and only a small percentage of land area is woodland and unimproved grassland, so there is a greater risk of over-collection than in France or Germany, by comparison.

Melanie

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by cowshill

Unfortunately, in working through this thread I also came away with some sadness at reading quite a bit of text that seemed to me to be definite put-downs of those of us whose enjoyment of our natural heritage includes gathering edible mushrooms. This was quite often coupled with references to the scientific nature of this forum, which it seems we epicures are, to a degree, polluting.

Could I just point out that WAB is not a scientific site? It is simply a site about the wonders of our natural environment, and it's here for everyone who wants to enjoy and protect that wild heritage, regardless of whether that desire springs more from a scientific or a sensual source.

- Jim

I've reread the whole thread through very carefully and can't find a single thread that puts down those whose interest in fungi includes collecting for eating, and also refers to the scientific nature of the forum. I did reply to one post that suggested that the more scientific side should be relegated to a nerdy subsection ....

I think you will find that all the 'scientists' have been very willing to suggest names for fungi posted by those new to fungi and the self-confessed 'non-scientists' on WAB. I, for one, do this, but will add that I do like to see some effort made to try to id a fungus by the poster, whether on the particular post or in previous posts, and that there is a genuine interest in fungi. That is maybe because (in a different field), my business used to get emailed quite regularly by school kids wanting their school homework/project answered without them doing any research whatsoever! If they are too lazy to do their own research I reserve the right to be too lazy to respond

Melanie

[Klaas Reißmann]

Hi Melanie,

thanks for your answere. And believe me, although in many parts of Germany we have more woodlands than in Britain I can't oversee over-collection in the forrests in my area. And although Germany is the country of rules and laws. I'm more in beetles and not in funghi (also many beetles live in and of funghi ), but the problems are the same in every field of nature.

Thanks again. I feel like a child, but this is another story.

Have a nice start into the new week
Klaas

[nickyspaghetti]

I agree that a certain amount of caution is necessary on the internet in order to not pick up incorrect information. I also agree that forum policy ought to be to not mention edibility of mushrooms posted solely for that purpose as a 100% accurate identification process is simply not possible via the net.
I do think however that a certain amount of discussion should be permitted regarding edible species just not regarding their identification.

There is a noticable attitude among the public that other people can be blamed for their own stupidity and it is just ridiculous. If I make a stupid mistake, yes it is embarrassing, but you deal with it and don't try to point the finger.
If people don't understand the risk associated with collecting mushrooms for food then, in my opinion, let natural selection take it's course. It is not like the risk is not common knowledge and people should take precautions and responsibility for their decisions.

[cowshill]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

I've reread the whole thread through very carefully and can't find a single thread that puts down those whose interest in fungi includes collecting for eating, and also refers to the scientific nature of the forum.

Melanie, since you reread the entire thread (a daunting task!) you are no doubt correct. On my part, after reading through the thread I wrote of the feelings I came away with and apparently incorrectly connected two ideas that were never expressed together. (Shows I'm not a scientist.)

So it appears that I should have written that a few posts demeaned fungal epicures and some others spoke of the scientific nature of the forum. I wrote carelessly and apologise if I have caused any offence in doing so. My intended point was not specifically that these thoughts were expressed together, but rather that they each needlessly created divisions among a great group of naturalists here in the fungi forum.

Allow me to end with the same words as my previous post: We're all in it together, and if we stick together we just might find a way to save the planet.

'Nuff said.

- Jim

[Deb London]

Originally Posted by nickyspaghetti

I agree that a certain amount of caution is necessary on the internet in order to not pick up incorrect information. I also agree that forum policy ought to be to not mention edibility of mushrooms posted solely for that purpose as a 100% accurate identification process is simply not possible via the net.
I do think however that a certain amount of discussion should be permitted regarding edible species just not regarding their identification.

There is a noticable attitude among the public that other people can be blamed for their own stupidity and it is just ridiculous. If I make a stupid mistake, yes it is embarrassing, but you deal with it and don't try to point the finger.
If people don't understand the risk associated with collecting mushrooms for food then, in my opinion, let natural selection take it's course. It is not like the risk is not common knowledge and people should take precautions and responsibility for their decisions.

Absolutely agree with your post, although I personally would add that sometimes the mistakes made are more understandable than at other times. I'm thinking here of the Oriental ladies on the I of W.