Unidentified Fungus for ID, South downs, woodland

[ohgreatstew]

As an addition to a previous thread of mine which remains unidentified I found some more, in fact there are a whole bunch of them now, when they are small you will notice the cap looks almost like it is going to be an amanita, but not when it gets bigger, a messy fungi to be honest, I am pretty sure there is no ring, the peice you see peeling away in one of these picture is actually part of the stem, spore print is cream/white, gills are the same, and remain so as it dries, cap around 3cm when small up to 10cm at full size, and those pimples become scales. I did think the previous one I found was solitary, but these are in groups of 2's and 3's coming up in an area near the edge of mixed woodland, mostly ash, oak and sycamore... any ideas appreciated.



The maggots obviously love em....

Thanks Stewart

[Ditiola]

Hi
I think you have a species of Amanita. I think it is probably producing abnormal fruit bodies due to some environmental conditions. I do not think the gills should be turning pinky brown, this may be a secondary infection. If it is an Amanita in the absence of a full microscopic study I can only match photos:
The nearest one I can find to match is this photo from the internet of A,echinocephala (I am not saying this is what it is just the nearest looking specimen I can find)

Peter

[ohgreatstew]

Thanks Peter, I have just returned from my evening walk with the dog, and I checked out the site again, there is a small specimen which when I saw it I thought amanita (Sadly I didn't have the camera), and to return to your comments and the picture you inculde I am even more convinced, the young specimen I mentioned the cap seems to have a lustre surface which is almost grey/green in colour. I have to ask the question that if this is the solitary amanita, why are there so many in close groups?

[Ken Burgess]

Hi Stewart

The first specimens you found must have been fairly distorted and they didn't clearly show a volva but in the new images the volva at the base of the stem is quite clear, for example in this image.

Originally Posted by ohgreatstew

With a pale spore print and a volva they can only be Amanita. In Amanita there is one section without a ring (like the grisettes) and one with a ring. Your specimen isn't like any of the grisettes, so it should have a ring. The ring forms from the partial veil, which is a membrane that protects the gills in immature specimens. As the cap opens out it tears and can leave membranous pieces along the edge of the cap or as a ring on the stem. The photo below appears to show a partial veil as a white membrane still covering the gills, which would form the ring as the cap expands.

Originally Posted by ohgreatstew

That said, I don't have any experience of these unusual Amanitas, so I can't add to what Peter has suggested.

Ken

[ohgreatstew]

Originally Posted by Ken Burgess

Hi Stewart

The first specimens you found must have been fairly distorted and they didn't clearly show a volva but in the new images the volva at the base of the stem is quite clear, for example in this image.



With a pale spore print and a volva they can only be Amanita. In Amanita there is one section without a ring (like the grisettes) and one with a ring. Your specimen isn't like any of the grisettes, so it should have a ring. The ring forms from the partial veil, which is a membrane that protects the gills in immature specimens. As the cap opens out it tears and can leave membranous pieces along the edge of the cap or as a ring on the stem. The photo below appears to show a partial veil as a white membrane still covering the gills, which would form the ring as the cap expands.



That said, I don't have any experience of these unusual Amanitas, so I can't add to what Peter has suggested.

Ken

Thanks Ken, this identification business sure is taxing, I am learning every day now, these seem to be rather distorted specimens...... which to be honest is rather inconsiderate of the fungi, why can't they all fit into nice perfect groups... amazing that only 2 years ago I thought there were only a few different types!!! How wrong can you be....

[NickCantle]

Well I'm very familiar with Amanita strobiliformis and this doesn't look too dissimilar to many I've previously seen. Trouble is, the size. You say 10cm max...that's WAY too small for the beasts I've been getting.

How odd, but very exciting. You'll see what I mean by size of A. strobiliformis here;

King Of Amanitas

Also, here's a pic of a weekend specimen measured against 40D and Sigma 105mm...



Nick

[ohgreatstew]

Originally Posted by NickCantle

Well I'm very familiar with Amanita strobiliformis and this doesn't look too dissimilar to many I've previously seen. Trouble is, the size. You say 10cm max...that's WAY too small for the beasts I've been getting.

How odd, but very exciting. You'll see what I mean by size of A. strobiliformis here;

King Of Amanitas

Also, here's a pic of a weekend specimen measured against 40D and Sigma 105mm...



Nick

Thanks Nick, I have seen your 'King of amanita's' thread before while looking to ID another amanita of mine.
These above examples are from the same woodland, although not the same spot, half a mile apart, but it seems to be coming down to a.strobiliformis or a.enchinocephala....
It is interesting to see that 3 out of 4 of my 10 odd books only show a.enchinocephala as a young specimen (the rest don't even list it), the only book I have that shows an older example is the Collins guide, and that grey/green tinge in certainly present on the example I saw yesterday. Maybe when this species is fully grown it is not recognised by many collectors due to serious deformities which render it unrecognisable, then there is the stem, it seems clear from the few descriptions I can find that the stem of the a.strobiliformis is bulbous and rooting, and the a.enchinocphala which is swollen and then pointed towards a deeply buried base encircled with bands of scales above the volva, this all ties in with what I have seen.....
I think this is a.echinocphala, which if ture could mean I have uncovered the largest collection of these apparently rare species.....

Stewart