Lactarius quieticolor?

[SheffieldLass]

I went back yesterday and they are under Pinus sylvestris. Then today found some more close to home at the other end of the forest, also under Pinus sylvestris.

Melanie

[swanandprasad]

So how about this, Andreas?

It was originally thought to be deterrmus but now quieticolor.

Picasa Web Albums - anandprasad
Picasa Web Albums - anandprasad

Stipe
Picasa Web Albums - anandprasad

Habitat which i thought was pine but i will go back to check
Picasa Web Albums - anandprasad

Thanks,
prasad

Originally Posted by mollisia

Hello Jim,

to me it is this special colour, that separates it from C. deliciosus. It is more brownish, duller, the silvery shine is (nearly) missing - in total it ressembles much Lactarius quietus, hence the name quieticolor. Another difference is the milk change to darker red before becoming greenish, whereas in L. deliciosus it stays orange for a long time and does not darken before becoming greenish. Often one can see in L. quieticolor a blueish zone under the cuticule when you cut it, espcially in young fruitbodies. Those fruitbodies where called L. hemicyaneus by BON (I think it was BON). That blue zone is variable and often one finds collections where some fruitbodies show it and some do not. It never occurs in L. deliciosus, so IF you have it, it is a good additional character.
C. deliciosus f. rubescens is more similar to L. quieticolor, becuase in this forma the milk also darkens before greening. But I found this one only on calcareous soil in open places (e.g. Mesobrometum), whereas L. quieticolor is confined to sandy, acid soils. Also cap colour is typically +/- bright orange, as in typical L. deliciosus.

best regards,
Andreas

[mollisia]

Hello prasad,

the missing spots on the stipe made me first think that it must be deterrimus. But the growth under pine rules deterrimus out, which makes mycorrhiza only with spruce.
Then looking at the green discolouration is somewhat more blueish-green then in deliciosus, the cap colour being wine-brown, the overall habit being somewhat clitocyboid - all this makes me think it is not Lactarius quieticolor, but Lactarius semisanguifluus. But I'm not certain, and we have no material to test the milk discolouration, I suppose?

best regards,
Andreas

[ashgale]

Originally Posted by mollisia

Hello prasad,

the missing spots on the stipe made me first think that it must be deterrimus. But the growth under pine rules deterrimus out, which makes mycorrhiza only with spruce.
Then looking at the green discolouration is somewhat more blueish-green then in deliciosus, the cap colour being wine-brown, the overall habit being somewhat clitocyboid - all this makes me think it is not Lactarius quieticolor, but Lactarius semisanguifluus. But I'm not certain, and we have no material to test the milk discolouration, I suppose?

best regards,
Andreas

Hi Andreas,

is an absolute rule that L.deterrminus is only found with spruce ?
or can it be found with other host trees at times ?

most books i have seen have L . deterrminis listed as "with spruce"
the following books have various descriptions of hosts,
courticuisse & duhem ------ with spruce and picea
phillips ------------------------ with spruce
fungi of switzerland -------- with picea
jordan ------------------------- with pine & spruce

and various others as ------ with spruce

fungi of switzerland also has the following info
L.deliciosus --------------- with pinus
L.salmonicolor ----------- with abies
L.semisanguifluus ------- with pines
L. sanguifluus ------------ with pines

ashgale.

[swanandprasad]

Hello Ashgale,
I have had this similar conversation with an expert who assures me that these books which have it with pine are wrong and that 'European authors all agree that L. deterrimus is tied to Picea. The best and most reliable source for such data (apart from the monographs) is the Checklist of British and Irish Basidiomycota by Legon & Henrici, an essential reference work'.
This means that many FRDBI in Britain are wrong or the situation in Britain is different. It's confusing but interesting too,
Prasad

Originally Posted by ashgale

Hi Andreas,

is an absolute rule that L.deterrminus is only found with spruce ?
or can it be found with other host trees at times ?

most books i have seen have L . deterrminis listed as "with spruce"
the following books have various descriptions of hosts,
courticuisse & duhem ------ with spruce and picea
phillips ------------------------ with spruce
fungi of switzerland -------- with picea
jordan ------------------------- with pine & spruce

and various others as ------ with spruce

fungi of switzerland also has the following info
L.deliciosus --------------- with pinus
L.salmonicolor ----------- with abies
L.semisanguifluus ------- with pines
L. sanguifluus ------------ with pines

ashgale.

[swanandprasad]

Thanks andreas,
I should point out i am an absolute beginner.
I do have some material but it may be too dry now. I have photos of the trees it was found under and i thought they were pines but i did not take a close look and the photos don't show enough detail as you could see. All the other fungi will be to far gone by now i think.
But i do not know how to test the milk. What do i do, cut it and then just watch what happens?

What i am intending to do is send the specimen to an expert who has offered to look at it and also to go back and look at the trees again. So i don't want to waste any more of your time unnecessary although i am enjoying your feedback.

I was also wondering why you discounted deterrimus on the original photos on this string so i could benefit from your knowledge. Was it the pits on the stipe?

Originally Posted by mollisia

Hello prasad,

the missing spots on the stipe made me first think that it must be deterrimus. But the growth under pine rules deterrimus out, which makes mycorrhiza only with spruce.
Then looking at the green discolouration is somewhat more blueish-green then in deliciosus, the cap colour being wine-brown, the overall habit being somewhat clitocyboid - all this makes me think it is not Lactarius quieticolor, but Lactarius semisanguifluus. But I'm not certain, and we have no material to test the milk discolouration, I suppose?

best regards,
Andreas

[swanandprasad]

Sorry i think i can answer my own question here.
It is habitat, pine means either deliciosus or quieticolor.
Right?

Originally Posted by swanandprasad

Thanks andreas,
I was also wondering why you discounted deterrimus on the original photos on this string so i could benefit from your knowledge. Was it the pits on the stipe?

[ashgale]

Originally Posted by swanandprasad

Hello Ashgale,
I have had this similar conversation with an expert who assures me that these books which have it with pine are wrong and that 'European authors all agree that L. deterrimus is tied to Picea. The best and most reliable source for such data (apart from the monographs) is the Checklist of British and Irish Basidiomycota by Legon & Henrici, an essential reference work'.
This means that many FRDBI in Britain are wrong or the situation in Britain is different. It's confusing but interesting too,
Prasad

while i would not go so far as to say that the books and frdbi are wrong, i would think it is possible that these fungi do occur with other species of conifers at times,
and there is also the possibility of some being wrongly recorded in the past, given the apparent confusion surrounding these species,

ive probably got this all wrong but, as in the past, fungi have been known to appear in situations where they should not

if you are sending your sample to someone for examination, it should clarify its identity at least,

ashgale.

[swanandprasad]

Re. photos in post #12.
I had first checked that it was definitely growing under pinus and sent a sample to an expert who has only now had time to examine it.
He wrote 'I have finally had time to look at your Lactarius and I am now more than ever convinced that this is L. quieticolor. The spore ornamentation is very coarse and forms almost a complete reticulum, far more than should be present on L. deterrimus for example. L. deliciosus also grows with Pinus of course but I think the macroscopic features rule that out, the very strong greening of the fruitbodies, the absence of pits on the stipes all point to L. quieticolor.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

[SheffieldLass]

I was back in the same area yesterday. Almost a year to the day.
They looked somewhat different to last year, less obviously zonate, and very varied in appearance. As you can see one was very orange, another a bit greyer with a blue flush, the smallest and youngest very blue-green. Milk was orange then after a while a little bit redder, but not markedly so.







I didn't check the colour of the stipe of the middle one. The other two weren't as whitish as last year. However both had those pits with a whitish substance in which I thought they were going to be small parasitic fungi, but not so when I checked them. Not sure what the white bits are. They're quite hard so I wondered if they were insect eggs that had hatched. But haven't a clue really, so all suggestions for that welcome.

I decided to check the most blue and the most orange microscopically to make sure that they were really L quieticolor, and not L deterrimus. The spores seemed the same in terms of ornamentation. These photos were taken just with the 40x objective, with Melzers. But to me they look more like sub-reticulate than isolated ridges and warts. Which should point to L quieticolor or L deliciosus.

oops, rather different cropping scales

I couldn't find any pleurocystidia, but did find what appears to be a cheilocystidium that is septate.

cheilocystidium in cotton blue

After a great deal of umming and ahhing, and looking at lots of photos online, I finally checked Fungi of Northern Europe, and my photos look very similar indeed to theirs. Their blue one and the orange one, except for the stipe that is. And last year's matched their first photo to a tee. As these were with Scots Pine I've finally satisfied myself (or deluded myself) that this year's crop are also coming coming out asL quieticolor Just shows how variable they can be.

I also found some looking much more like last year's in another spot where I'd found them last year. Just about to check these spores though. They are under pine, but there is some spruce nearby.

And I also found one from the same group of orange milking fungi on Saturday, in another wood, and I'm pretty sure the milk turned vinaceous very readily. I showed the broken stem to some people who were walking past and I'll swear it was much darker when I showed them to how it was when I first broke it. No pictures of its changed colour though, but I think I collected it so will have another look at it.

Melanie