Coprinellus/Coprinopsis sp

[SheffieldLass]

I found this small 'Coprinus' in leaf/twig litter on the edge of deciduous woodland (mainly willow). And I'm stumped ....



Veil has chains but quite a few sub-globose elements, particularly at the ends.
10x 40x

Pileipellis has a lot of globose elements. Hymeniderm?


Spores appear in some to have an eccentric pore. Size is (13) 13.7 - 15.2 (15.7) x (6.5) 7 - 7.7 (7.9)um.


Basidia seemed to be 2 spored, but I did find one that was 3 spored. Basidia size is 11-15 x 23-35um.


Abundant cheilocystidia and pleurocystidia. Cheilo size 24-37 x 52-78, pleuro size 25-54 x 67-144um.


I couldn't find any clamps, and I didn't find any caulocystidia.

I've used Funga Nordica and FAN6/Ulje Coprinus website but have drawn a blank. The closest I think is Coprinellus flocculosus, but that has 4 spored basidia, and the size of the pleurocystidia listed is rather smaller than mine. Other things seem to match well.

The other one the keys seem to lead to is Coprinopsis lagopus, but that again has 4 spored basidia. The listed size of the basidia is considerably smaller (on the width measurement), it has clamps, the spores are shorter, veil isn't quite right, and the pileipellis is a cutis.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Melanie

[Chris Yeates]

hi Melanie

I've emailed Derek Schafer's e-address to you

looks interesting

best

C

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

hi Melanie

I've emailed Derek Schafer's e-address to you

looks interesting

best

C

Thanks. I've now got a dry black 'squidge' with a stalk attached. I'll try and scrape it off the surface it has dried on, and preserve what is left. It's a pity they go off so quickly. Luckily I did the microscopy the minute I got back home, and there was still a bit of veil in existence then. It had vanished an hour later.

Melanie

[mollisia]

Hello Melanie,

I think the basidia are 4-spored. The one you show has three sterigmata showing, two of which bear spores.

best regards,
Andreas

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by mollisia

Hello Melanie,

I think the basidia are 4-spored. The one you show has three sterigmata showing, two of which bear spores.

best regards,
Andreas

It will make life much easier if they are 4 spored . I've gone very carefully through all the photos I took, spotted a few more with 3 sterigmata, and some more that look like two, but not a single with 4 obvious sterigmata. Does 3 sterigmata mean they are 4 spored (but just didn't make the full effort)?

I had emailed them to Derek just before you posted, so he'll be able to make a better judgement than me.

cheers
Melanie

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by mollisia

Hello Melanie,

I think the basidia are 4-spored. The one you show has three sterigmata showing, two of which bear spores.

best regards,
Andreas

where have you been Andreas? - to quote T.S. Eliot:

Frisch weht der Wind
Der Heimat zu.
Mein Irisch Kind,
Wo weilest du?

I'm sure there must be some Irish in your personal gene pool; please chase back through recent threads - I must have been spouting nonsense at some stage . . .

best

Chris

[mollisia]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

I've gone very carefully through all the photos I took, spotted a few more with 3 sterigmata, and some more that look like two, but not a single with 4 obvious sterigmata. Does 3 sterigmata mean they are 4 spored (but just didn't make the full effort)?

Hello Mel,

seeing three sterigmata in a single foto usually means, that there is a fourth one which is not to see because the deepth of the foto can not show it. Even to see two sterigmata in many basidia on a foto indicates, that you have four-spored basidia.
In Coprinus you can often observe a nice "flower"-pattern when you look at a gill laying on the side. As the basidia are all upright then, you look exactly on their top, and then see all four Sterigmata with spores on them, what gives a nice pattern of "flowers with four leaves".

So, to judge if basidia are two- or four-spored is only possible with the microscope, but rarely on a foto.

best regards,
Andreas

[mollisia]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

where have you been Andreas? - to quote T.S. Eliot:

Frisch weht der Wind
Der Heimat zu.
Mein Irisch Kind,
Wo weilest du?

I'm sure there must be some Irish in your personal gene pool; please chase back through recent threads - I must have been spouting nonsense at some stage . . .

best

Chris

Hello Chris,

being busy, sorry. That will still increase from August to November ....

Irish in the gene pool? Hmmm, my anchestors are said to come from Switzerland and Austria .... But may be I will discover some irish strains in me, when I will visit Ireland in 2012

best regards,
Andreas

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by mollisia

Hello Mel,

seeing three sterigmata in a single foto usually means, that there is a fourth one which is not to see because the deepth of the foto can not show it. Even to see two sterigmata in many basidia on a foto indicates, that you have four-spored basidia.
In Coprinus you can often observe a nice "flower"-pattern when you look at a gill laying on the side. As the basidia are all upright then, you look exactly on their top, and then see all four Sterigmata with spores on them, what gives a nice pattern of "flowers with four leaves".

So, to judge if basidia are two- or four-spored is only possible with the microscope, but rarely on a foto.

best regards,
Andreas

Thanks. I've just had an email back from Derek who also thinks they are 4 spored. So C flocullosus it is.

I've sometimes managed to get to see those nice 'flower' patterns but so often the nice fresh fungus when picked has almost disintegrated by the time I get it home, and a scoop of mushy black ends up on the slide, not a nice gill

I did scroll the microscope up and down on that one, rather a lot, but I think they were not naturally very visible. Maybe a bit of congo red would have helped . I was looking at some microphotos yesterday of another Coprinellus that I took in autumn and had failed to reach an id, and by comparison that had very clear 4 spored basidia, without congo red. Not that it has helped me reach an id on that one ... yet ....

Cheers
Melanie

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

Thanks. I've just had an email back from Derek who also thinks they are 4 spored. So C flocullosus it is . . . .
Cheers
Melanie

still, a good find, only a handful of Yorkshire records and new to VC62 as far I can see

Chris

PS forecast says more rain for the next couple of days and dry on Saturday - looking good . . .