Cup fungus ID please?

[Monkey Orchid]

Thanks for all the input, folks. And I appreciate the offer of microscopy, Chris! I will PM you.

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by Monkey Orchid

Thanks for all the input, folks. And I appreciate the offer of microscopy, Chris! I will PM you.

. . . . and only some 10 months later the poor lass gets a response!

while working through boxes of dried herbarium material I came across this one from Monkey Orchid which I should have looked at last spring! . . . . simple revival in water shows how true it is that careful drying maintains most of the micro-characters:



the flesh in section showed some banding but was not markedly stratified

the spores are smooth and average 15 x 9 microns:


the paraphyses - arrowed - are rather featureless (sadly not Peziza megalochondra then! - nor indeed P. varia):


using Brian Spooner's and one or two other keys it comes out in the P. micropus / P. repanda area; I decided if I had to plump for one, that based on gross morphology and habitat I would go for Peziza micropus . . . . I then refound this thread and lo and behold that is what I had initially suggested (doesn't mean I'm necessarily 100% correct, of course, but that is what I am labelling it as in my herbarium); I agree they are large for that species, but size is not always an alpha-character . . .

cheers

Chris

[Monkey Orchid]

Thanks for the ID confirmation, Chris!

I'm really impressed that you hung on to the specimen for so long and didn't lose it. I'd be hard pressed to find things that I put down 10 months ago... And it was a nice surprise to get this ID - I don't mind it being belated!

[mollisia]

Hello,

this complex of Peziza species is dealt with in literature in very different ways. There are concepts, which separate species on characters like "distinct medium layer vs. no or undistinct medium layer" or "paraphyses moliniform or straight". Other contributors think that those characters are only due to weather conditions. Some authors think that the ecological niches of these species in the complex are distinctive (so do I ), some other don't. Molecular studies seem to tend to only one variable species which then is called Peziza varia.
For my own purpose and for distribution data, I keep the taxa separate. A later specialist may throw them together as he likes, but doing so today will loose the chance to separate them in furture if perhaps new argumetns will be found.

So all brown Peziza species with spores appr. 14-6 x 8-9 µm and without oil drops and with a +/- smooth outer surface is Peziza varia s.l. for me, and ss.str. I note:
P. micropus - the species growing on distinct woody substrate like logs (starting from the optimum phase of degrading) or wood-chips. Usually outer and inner surface in same colouration when wet, usually with distinct stipe like base, usually with smooth argin
P. cerea - the ochraceous species growing on stone walls (e.g. in cellars)
P. repanda - the species growing on saw dust and (very) small woody litter or in disturbed places in wood, usually with a lighte exterior then interior, usually with a crenulate margin, usually not with a stipe like base.
P. varia - the species with no distinct ecological niche, growing usually on soil, usually with the same colour of outer and inner surface, usually with a smooth margin, often with moliniform paraphyses.

All these four taxa can grow quite big. In my beech wood forest plots, where I inventarise the fungal fruiting on Fagus stems in different stage of degrading, I often come across P. micropus which can reach a diameter up to 12 cm on the big logs, often accompagning Hericium coralloides.

best regards,
Andreas