Mushrooms and Toadstools

[Bish]

Hi All,

Was wondering about the origin of the words mushroom and toadstool.
I have my versions but would be interested to see what other people will come up with.

Chris

[Tiggrx]

Not sure where the word 'Mushroom' comes from but 'Toadstool' supposedly because toads sit on them (not that I have ever seen one do so). Toadstools are said to be poisonous because the toads pass on their own poison to them.

[Bish]

Hello tiggrx,

Thanks for your reply.
I thought this one had gone down like a lead baloon
I'll wait and see if there are any other suggestions for Toadstools.

As far as Mushrooms are concerned the word is almost certainly derived from the French "Mousseron" which in turn comes from mousse meaning moss.

Mousseron is the common French name for two fungi

St. Georges Mushroom (Calocybe gambosa) and
Fairy ring Mushroom (Marasmius oreades)

Both of which are considered to be among the best edibles
The word can be traced back to the end of the 14th C and has since been associated with edibility in the English language.

It's interesting to note that in French all fungi are "champignons". No distiction between nasties and yu......... err.. sorry, word not allowed, edibles.

[GerryNick2]

Can't say that I have come across this subject in the past other than a mention that 'Toadstool' was adopted centuries ago to separate out the poisonous ones, i.e. Toadstools were a no go, Mushrooms were ok. Of course we now know that this is far from a safe strategy.

Interesting bit of info from Tiggrx about the Toad urine, all I can say is that I am glad I don't eat them. Will have a closer look and sniff them the next time the wife brings some home from the supermarket, you never know!

Gerry

[Bish]

Hello all,

I’d been giving this question a lot of thought and had done quite a lot of reading when I decided to start this thread
I wasn’t satisfied with the popular fairly tale idea of toadstools being a resting place for slimy, warty frog –like creatures and I recently came across an interesting idea that toad was derived from the German word todes meaning death.
After having started my thread I suddenly thought this can’t be right. Why would and English word, used for centuries, be derived from a modern German word? I thought maybe there was a connection with Old (Anglo-Saxon) English being a Germanic language and had a look at the Old English dictionaries available on the web and there is no word even vaguely resembling Todes. So this idea falls down.
Once again the word can be traced back to the late 14th C, when Middle English was evolving rapidly towards English that we would more or less understand, and is derived from Tadde meaning toad, of which the plural is Todes!
So I guess the notion of a batrachians’ seat has to be accepted.

Apart from a notion of edibility how would you define Mushrooms and Toadstools?

Mushrooms: Fungi growing in fields or all Agarics?
Toadstools: All fungi growing in the woods?

This notion seems to be unique to the English language as on the continent, although I can only vouch for French and Italian, there is only one word.
Of course we British don’t do anything like the continentals and long may it stay that way.

Welcome any comment and corrections

[NickCantle]

Yeah the mushroom thing seems to be something similar to that. In one of my very old fungi books, under all the Agaricus species it says "One of the true Mushrooms".

What you think?
CONFUUUSING!!!!
Nick

[Angelo_Xanthi]

I know no more than you guys have written. I can only add that in Greek, just like in French or Italian, we have only one word for both mushroom/toadstool, the word 'manitari' (the stress is on 'ta'), which is derived from older Greek 'amanitarion' (= a small amanita).

[Bish]

Originally Posted by Angelo_Xanthi

I know no more than you guys have written. I can only add that in Greek, just like in French or Italian, we have only one word for both mushroom/toadstool, the word 'manitari' (the stress is on 'ta'), which is derived from older Greek 'amanitarion' (= a small amanita).

Interesting
In Italian it's surprisingly......................funghi
I'll have to check up on the origin of champignon

The point I wanted to make is that in Britain there is a centuries old "fear" of wood fungi which has lead to usage of two words in English.
I can only assume that there must have been numerous cases of mass poisoning in the middle ages but this would have occured else where in Europe so why has this "legend" only develloped in Britain.
If any "mycohistorians" can shed any light on this I'd be grateful

[porus]

I think the reason there are two words in use, one for edible and one for inedible dates back to the time of the Norman conquest. Anglo-Saxons foraging for food would have used a single word for funghi. When they took them to their fuedal lord they would have had to use the french word. This is same reason we have two words for meat very often. When your saxon surf was looking after the animals they were called pigs, sheep, cows etc but when they were dead and taken to the big house they became pork, mutton, beef etc (porc, mouton, beouf)

Pete

[cherrybee]

Originally Posted by porus

I think the reason there are two words in use, one for edible and one for inedible dates back to the time of the Norman conquest. Anglo-Saxons foraging for food would have used a single word for funghi. When they took them to their fuedal lord they would have had to use the french word. This is same reason we have two words for meat very often. When your saxon surf was looking after the animals they were called pigs, sheep, cows etc but when they were dead and taken to the big house they became pork, mutton, beef etc (porc, mouton, beouf)

Pete

That is very interesting thank you and a very warm welcome to WAB porus