Cup Fungus (Signs of Spring)

[cybershot]

With temperatures 'soaring' to 7 degrees in yesterday's sunshine, a long walk across Yateley Common to Minley Wood in Hampshire was rewarded with a sign of spring in the shape of an early cup fungus. In former days I would have jumped in and labelled it Peziza vesiculosa, but now, older and hopefully wiser and without the aid of a safety net in the form of microscopy, I'm loathe to hazard a guess at genus; let alone species:



Any ideas? Tarzetta cupularis perhaps? Thanks for any feedback and, whilst appreciating the difficulties of identifying the species in question without further physical and microscopic analysis, I note an interesting online comment (accompanied by illustration) regarding P. repanda:

"When young, Peziza repanda is very pale or even whitish overall, and it
displays a central, stemlike structure. This stage is rarely illustrated or
discussed in field guides. Gradually the upper surface darkens to brown, and the 'stem' becomes negligible in proportion to the cup."

(Reference: http://www.mushroomexpert.com/peziza_repanda.html )

I will try to monitor and collect samples of the find (1-3 cm) which was growing in soil (may have been woodchipped at some stage) under landscaped rhododendron avenue on the verge of a trackway between areas of conifers.

David

[Leif]

I wouldn't mind getting some photos if there are any left?

It is certainly not P. vesiculosa, which forms clam shell shaped bodies when young, usually brown, with a rudimentary stem, usually on wood or woody debris. My guess would be a Tarzetta species, but microscopy is needed.

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Leif

I wouldn't mind getting some photos if there are any left?

It is certainly not P. vesiculosa, which forms clam shell shaped bodies when young, usually brown, with a rudimentary stem, usually on wood or woody debris. My guess would be a Tarzetta species, but microscopy is needed.

No problem Leif - directions with grid ref to your email later today.

Cheers

David

[Leif]

Originally Posted by cybershot

No problem Leif - directions with grid ref to your email later today.

Cheers

David

Ooh, must be Christmas already. Thanks.

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Leif

Ooh, must be Christmas already. Thanks.

You are more than welcome - email on its way

[Leif]

Oops, in my previous post I meant P. repanda not P. vesiculosa.

Anyway, I found your site, thanks again. As per your photos there is a very prominent and ribbed stem. Is that a featuer of Tarzetta? It does not seem to be. I wonder about Paxina/Helvella species. I'm waiting on a spore print to take measurements, though the spores look to have 1 drop, and are ellipsoidal, very roughly 18um long. Paraphyses cylindrical, septate, +/- slightly capitate.

I took a tatty specimen home and left the young ones, and with luck I might get a nicer photo next weekend.

[cybershot]

I note an interesting online comment (accompanied by illustration) regarding P. repanda:

"When young, Peziza repanda is very pale or even whitish overall, and it
displays a central, stemlike structure. This stage is rarely illustrated or
discussed in field guides. Gradually the upper surface darkens to brown, and the "stem" becomes negligible in proportion to the cup."

(Reference: Peziza repanda (MushroomExpert.Com) )

The specimens I collected have now dried and the upper surfaces have turned distinctly dark fawn in colour. Though very little else, including substrate, fits as far as this species is concerned, so I await your findings Leif.

Cheers

David

[Leif]

David: my reason for ruling out P. repanda is the general jizz which is not right. It is less evident from your photos, but the ones I saw all looked like goblets, and from the top looked circular. That is very unusual for P. repanda, which is usually flattened, or irregular. You can see examples on my web site, including some on dung which keys suggest would be P. vesiculosa (but microscopy shows otherwise). Yes, P. repanda can have a short stem, but look at the older one in your photo, and the robust stem, which does not look right, to my eye anyway. Your specimens are a bit like Paxina acetabulum, but too pale, and no ribs on the cup. Someone more familiar with these species than me might have something more definite to say.

The bad news is that I cannot get any mature spores in a print. Looking at immature ones is too misleading. I will pop over again next week, and try again, as I think it is something interesting. Twin drops in the spores would indicate Tarzetta, though I have only seen one large drop in the few spores I have seen.

[cybershot]

Apologies for the repetitive comments regarding P. repanda which I now realise are irrelevant and I agree with Leif's take on this. Hopefully between us we will eventually manage to collect a good mature specimen for analysis and positive ID. Unfortunately, without my having reference to the equivalent of a 'Checklist of the British & Irish Basidiomycota' for the Asco's, any other suggestions I may make cannot be deemed authentically British and remain purely speculative, though having seen the hymenial surface of some of the young specimens turning greyish-brown I am foolishly tempted to put a small wager on Helvella leucomelaena.

David

[Leif]

No need to apologise for anything David, especially since you found them. I hope you don't mind me not accepting your wager, since Helvella leucomelaena is a possibility, although I have only seen it once over 10 years ago. It is a spring species too.