Velvet Shank - variability

[mebeingme]

Hi,
I have read several threads regarding Velvet Shank (Flammulina velutipes); the variability of this species and difficulty distinguishing from species such as Sulphur Tuft.

A few quick questions – Does this species always have slimy cap or is this dependent on damp conditions; One member described this as 'hygrophanous'? Do young specimens have dark brown stems or is this characteristic confined to mature specimens? I photographed same group of fungi at identical location over a number of months in order to ID; I rather went round the houses. Originally thought was Hypholoma capnoides given macroidentification – ooops! The photographs from my fungi guides all have Velvet shank caps photographed as smooth and slimy; similar in appearance to wax caps. The first photograph was taken 29.10.09; a dry day; caps were also velvety to touch. Within same location it has been easier to identify Velvet shank given contrast of stem and cap; jet black stems in some individuals. Is this species just awkward or do I need to revisit my books.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

PS: I have followed advice from WAB help guide regarding uploading photos to threads. Does this read ok with attached photos?

[Ditiola]

An interesting question!

I have been fooled by this variable fungus. It has what I call the typical form with dark brown velvety stipe base and honey brown caps that may be slimy in wet weather:





Also sometimes very slimy as here:




I have also found it with only slightly darker stems and dry caps with a different shaped clump as here:





When grown for food in Japan it is drawn up in jars and looks like this:





Peter

[fairplay]

Now your 4th photo really is problematic Peter.
If I came across this, I really would think it to be a Hypholoma sp.

Obviously you have studied this clump closely for you to be confident it is Velvet Shank, but could it have been sterile by any chance ?

Neil.

[Ditiola]

Neil
When I found it I thought it was a Pholiota or similar and was surprised when I got a white spore print. I keyed it out to Flammulina and was still surprised. However it is possible I have made a mistake in the keys, I'm not infallible, and do sometimes make mistakes

Perhaps someone else has found similar specimens that where confirmed as Flammulina? I would be interested to know.

Peter

[Ditiola]

A quick search on Google Images results in lots of variation in Flammulina velutipes (if they are all correctly identified?)

Here are a few similar to my specimens: Number 4



From: www.capsandstems.com



From: The Mushroom Table - Wild Mushroom Alphabetical List




From: Wiseacre Gardens



Peter

[diggleken]

This also Peter was a very pale clump, growing with other velvets, more normal colour, in profusion. Pic with normal cousins as well below.
Presumably the substrate/salts or whatever available causes some variation as in vegetation?
One was with silver leaf nearby, one with exidia, but most had no other apparent fungi close, so why the variation ..........................!
Cheers
Ken

[Ditiola]

Thanks ken,
Although I remember doing all the microscope checks at the time, Neil put some doubts in my mind that you have taken clean away. I can now go to the pub tonight without a care in the world.

I am surprised that a taxonomist has not split Flammulina into different varietal forms yet! although there does seem to be a current trend to lump varieties together.

Peter

[mebeingme]

Thank you Peter, Neil & Ken for responses to this thread.

I am really intrigued by photographs and certainly didn’t expect the Japanese jar variety! I have trawled the internet and gleaned a few facts that might assist / confuse this debate?

During my trawl I did glean that F.Velutipes is easily confused with the deadly Galerina autumnalis – nuff said!

F.velutipes fruitbody formation appears to be sensitively dependent on light and CO2. Light appears to be the overriding factor in development of the stem & cap. Manufactured (Enokitake) varieties appear to be grown under high C02 limited light conditions; with long stems and blanched caps. I cannot see that C02 levels would affect morphology within wild species. I am erring on the side that light, substrate and the X-factor creates such variability.

Sometimes, in nature, quite wonderful to learn, but better to have another question mark….

Are slimy caps with this species contingent with moist environment

[fairplay]

Thanks to you all for posting those shots, they really have enlightened me.

Neil.