ID Help please - Clitocybe? and pos. Tricholoma?

[jaybie]

These were found in mixed woodland but close to Beech in leaf litter. The cap size is about 6cm and the spore print white (not good to try it on white paper I discovered). The slime is from the slug which can be seen on the gills. I think Clitocybe gibba.




These were found in a small plantation of mainly corsican pine but with young beech interspersed. I didn't get a chance to get a shot in situ as it was chucking it down and my camera isn't weather proof. The spore print from these is off white/cream and the cap size is approx 3.5cm. I thought it might be a Tricholoma pos. T. albobrunneum but Phillips lists this as uncommon and with white spore print. I could be way off with this, it wouldn't surprise me.



Your help greatly appreciated.

JohnB

[NickCantle]

Hiya John mate,

Your first to me looks more a Lactarius- if you look closely, there are striations showing on the cap margin. I've never seen this in C. gibba. The jizz just says Lactarius to me, though I'm struggling to pinpoint exactly why! My apologies for not being very helpful!

I'm pretty sure that your second is Collybioid. Those free, white gills just sing out Collybia to me. The cap isn't telling many tales, but I think it's waterlogged.

I wouldn't be so sure of my suggestions, I'm a tad rusty

Nick

[jaybie]

Hi Nick

Thanks for the input, what put me off Lactarius on the first was the absence of "milk" when I cut it.

Back to the drawing board as the saying goes.

JohnB

[mollisia]

Hello,

I completely agree with Nick.
The Lactarius is what the continentals call Lactarius subdulcis. I'm not sure whether the british call it the same.

best regards,
Andreas

[fairplay]

I think most of us would call it one of the awkward milkcaps.

Neil.

[jaybie]

Thanks for the responses. A little bit more learnt with the striations etc.

What would cause the lack of milk when cut - I thought this was the biggest distinguishing feature of lactarius.

JohnB

[NickCantle]

Originally Posted by jaybie

Thanks for the responses. A little bit more learnt with the striations etc.

What would cause the lack of milk when cut - I thought this was the biggest distinguishing feature of lactarius.

JohnB

Dehydration or age, usually.

[fairplay]

........ or lack of grass.
Work it out.

Neil.

[jaybie]

Originally Posted by fairplay

........ or lack of grass.
Work it out.

Neil.

Thanks Neil - 'nuff said

JohnB

[mollisia]

Originally Posted by jaybie

What would cause the lack of milk when cut - I thought this was the biggest distinguishing feature of lactarius.

JohnB

Hello John,

there are species which very fast dry up and are often "without" milk. Quite annoying as macroscoping character, but microscopically the lacticiferous hyphae (that are those hyphae that contain the "milk") are still present.

What concerns the distinguishing between Russula and Lactarius, the specialist are (as far as I know) unanimousely the opinion, that the two genera can not be separated. At least not in the nowadays way. E.g. the group of Russula delica and the blackening species (R. nigricans etc.) are more closely related to Lactarius species as L. vellereus then to the other Russulae. But uniting them will cause a lot of nomenclatural problems, because Lactarius is the older name and Russula would fall into synonymy. As there are many Russula names which are yet beset in Lactarius, not only new combinations but also lots of new names would be the result. I think the tendency goes towards a splitting of the Russula and Lactarius into more genera with a new sorting of the former Russula-Lactarius species and inclusion of the secotiod Arcangeliella, Macowanites.

best regards,
Andreas