Lactarius quieticolor?

[gleditsa]

the spot I usually find my L.deterrminus in is on a path which has spruce on one side and pines on the other, so the needle carpet is not usually a deciding factor in the id of these,
which all points to the fact that my past identifications could be a bit suspect at the end of the day,

j.

[Ken Burgess]

Yes, I find it does get confusing if you have both pines and spruce nearby, in which case you have to rely on the differences in important characters between the two species.

But my point is that for the specmens in this post it is just speculation at the moment as to whether there were any spruce trees nearby, whereas we know for sure there were pines present.

Ken

[gleditsa]

theres only one thing for it then, Mike and Dave will just have to go back tomorrow and get the details

j.

[pressld2]

I'll leave that to Mike - he's much closer than me!

Dave P.

[Mike Jackson]

If it's not chucking it down tomorrow I'll be out there in the morning. I can't recall seeing any Spruce there but I'll have a look.

[timhale197200]

Well, at least it's a good excuse to get into them woods again for a foray!

[Mike Jackson]

I'm off work all next week so guess where I'll be walking the dogs every day?

[mollisia]

Hello,

the initial fungus definitely is not L. deterrimus. This speices is the only one of the Dapetes which has no spots on the stipe. All others have.

Those orange milking Lactarius are not really difficult to separate - with a few exceptions:

Lactarius salmonicolor is the one that grows with Abies. And it is the only one which never shows green discolorations of any kind. neither cap nor milk.

Lactarius deterrimus is the one from Picea. It has never any spots on the stipe. The milk turns vinaceous after appr. 15 minutes.
(there is a scandinavien species, L. fennoscandicus, which is very similar)

All other species are with Pinus:
Lactarius sanguifluus is easily recognized because he is the only one which has wine red milk from the beginning. It grows on calcareous soil in warm areas.

Lactarius deliciosus is the one that never ever turns darker in the milk, but becomes green after several hours.

Lactarius semisanguifluus is a small species, even smaller as L. deterrimus, and has the fastest colour change in the milk: 5-10 minutes. It has very dull colours, often brownish with a vinaceous hue and mixed with green. Nearly no ornage colours in the cap.

Lactarius queticolor is a more robust and bigger species, which also turns vinaceous in the milk (difference to deliciosus!), but a littler more slowly than L. semisanguifluus). It has the same shiny concentric zones on the cap as deliciosus, but different cap colour. The zones on the cap distinguish it from L. semisanguifluus, which is otherwise very similar. These two species are best to separate with the microscope, they have quite different spores.
L. quieticolor seems to be restricted to acid soil, but L. semisanguifluus to calcareous. But I'm not totally sure about that.

I'm lucky enough to have excursion areas where we can find 4 or 5 or even all 6 during one excursion, so I see those quite often. L. semisanguifluus and L. quieticolor seem (in my area at least) to be the rarest.

So, the initial picture shows in my eyes L. quieticolor.

best regards,
Andreas

best regards,
Andreas

[pressld2]

Thanks for that Andreas.

Mike, if you do get back there tomorrow it might be worth looking for the one we cut to see what colour it is now...

Dave P.

[flaxton]

And as it is a Red Data List with less than 100 sightings it would be worth making sure.

Mal

[Mike Jackson]

Waterfproofs on then and I'll get back and check.

[mollisia]

Hello,

and please collect a mature specimen and dry it. L. quieticolor is the one in this group with the coarsiest ornament and therefore microscopically to verify.

best regards,
Andreas

[Mike Jackson]

Right I've been back and collected the cut specimen.

I can't see any spruce in the locality. There are Birch and pine. The soil is acid clay. According to a history of the area it may have been woodland previously but has been replanted as part of the forestation of the area. I would imagine that the odd birch trees nearby have self seeded. Until recently the ground was covered by dense rhododendron which was removed in the latter part of last year.

Photos

Colouration after around 18 hours



Colouration of a fresh cut across the stem after 2 hours.



Comparison of fresh cut and 2 hour cut.



Is the half specimen that I've got okay to dry or do I need to go back and get another? I'm off this week so I can nip back over to check progress.

I assume if it does turn out to be a red data species we need to inform someone. I'll also need to contact the woodland trust as it may affect their management plan for the area.

Mike

[Ken Burgess]

You can clearly see the pitting on the stem in the photos of the cut stem. That combined with the absence of spruce does rule out Lactarius deterrimus, as I suspected and as Andreas confirmed.

But as for the colour changes, you'll have to wait for Andreas because I have only seen Lactarius quieticolor a couple of times. I guess it would probably need microscopy to be sure. Your specimen cut in half should be fine for drying for this purpose, provided it is dried reasonably promptly and not allowed to go putrid.

Ken

[mollisia]

Hello Mike,

I have little doubt that this is Lactarius quieticolor. The only other possibility is L. semisanguifluus, but neither the ecology nor the habit of the fruitbodies suites well. To be sure, one can look at the spores. Those of quieticolor are more elongate compared to those of semisanguifluus, and furthermore the ornamentation is quite coarse, consisting of broad ridges in quieticolor, whereas it is much less pronounced and tending to become subreticulate in semisanguifluus. The half fruitbody suites perfect.
Wheter one should inform lots of institutions becuase of one red data list species - I don't know. Usually they are not very interested. They are interested in species lists and when there are some red data list species within, they are even more glad. But because of just one .... In Germany appr. one third of all macromycetes is on the red data list (including the level "R" for rarity), so you can find nearly every excursion one or more of them, depending in which locaity or biotope you search.

best regards,
Andreas

[pressld2]

Thanks again Andreas!

Mike, a quick email to the county recorder (Sussex Biodiversity Record Centre – County Recorders) might be worthwhile just to see if he's interested.

It looks like it wasn't egg on face after all! But then you had the Tremella foliacea and I had the Amanita excelsa var. spissa so it's one egg each at present!

Dave P.

[cutecoot]

Following this thread with interest .. how exciting! (hopefully!)

[Mike Jackson]

I had another poke round today and found another couple closer to the path. i then continued on and on the main path through the bottom of Sedlescombe heath I found a more mature cluster on the path.

[Mike Jackson]

I've been in contact with a local mycologist and he has found L. quieticolor in various places across West Kent and East Sussex as well as in Brede High Woods. It's starting to look like it is under recorded rather than particularly rare in this part of the country.

Mike