An Asco and a small brown job for ID

[RobSutton]

Had a bad fungus day at Malham Tarn yesterday - lots of things I found hard to ID. These are two of the nicest but ones I'm still struggling with:

A rather nice but small yellow cup (c3-4mm diameter) on a pronounced stalk growing on a dead twig of, I think, Sycamore:





and largish 14-17µ spores:



and a small (cap c 15mm diameter) brown job with nondescript microscopy, and no significant smell or taste found growing on leaf litter under beech:



there were no obvious cystidia anywhere and it had these small (6.5x3.5µ) pip shaped, hyaline spores:



The only thing I could come close with was Gymnopus (Collybia) fuscopurpureus.

Any suggestions gratefully received, thanks.

[ManwithNoname]

I'd agree with your suggestion of Gymnopus fuscopurpureus, although, when I've found it, it was growing more in a dense cluster. The spores are the right shape and in the appropriate size range.

That's what it would key out to with Antonin and Noordeloos's monograph, although the photo there doesn't help much. Interestingly, though, there is some debate about whether the species found in Britain is actually the Gymnopus fuscopurpureus in their monograph, or actually an American species known as Collybia biformis, which makes it a bit difficult to key out since that species is not included in the version of the monograph I have.

PS Just checked the notes in the Checklist and here is what it says:

'Notes: Previously considered a rarity, this has become commoner, at least in southern England, and there is a single collection from Wales (Denbighshire). There is some doubt that this is the species described in A&N1: 109, since British collections do not show a green reaction with alkali. It has been suggested that British material may represent the North American Collybia biformis (Peck) Singer.'

Antonin and Noordeloos say 'walls of all hyphae, including most hymenial elements and especially the crustations on the hyphal wall turn green in alkali'. So there's a test for you to try out. But if it doesn't work it could still be the British form currently with the same name!

[ManwithNoname]

Interestingly, I've just checked back through my images of Collybia fuscopurpurea and the jizz is quite different. Mine look more like a purple-brown version of Collybia confluens, so perhaps there are different species going under the same name.

[ManwithNoname]

Here's one of my images.



This seems to be a different species from yours but mine was found a BMS foray and identified by 'the experts' as Collybia fuscopurpurea. So there is clearly still some work to do on finding names for these species because I would still key your specimens out to the same name.

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by ManwithNoname

. . . . there is some debate about whether the species found in Britain is actually the Gymnopus fuscopurpureus in their monograph, or actually an American species known as Collybia biformis, which makes it a bit difficult to key out since that species is not included in the version of the monograph I have. . . . .

the original description of Marasmius biformis - the basionym of Collybia biformis (= Gymnopus biformis) is here:

Libri Fungorum - Page Image

the description of the cap: "pileo . . . luteo vel pallide brunneo, striatulo, in sicco pallide griseo . . . " - i.e. "yellow or pale brown, striate, pale grey when dry" doesn't seem to be much like this agaric

again I'd be happy to have a look at that ? Hymenoscyphus ? for you Rob - about to do battle with that Scutellinia . . . .

PS

Originally Posted by RobSutton

Had a bad fungus day at Malham Tarn yesterday - lots of things I found hard to ID. . . . .

that's not a bad day mate - that's a challenging day

best

C

[RobSutton]

Thank you - it seems to be another of those difficult ones! When I first found them they didn't look dissimilar to the one in the far bottom right hand corner of your photo. The paler reddish brown came as they'd dried out by the time I'd returned with the camera. I've just looked at Collybia fuscopurpurea in Fungi of Switzerland and they separate it (as not turning green in KOH) from a Collybia alkalivirens (turning green in KOH), so it's status certainly does seem confusing.

[Chris Yeates]

Originally Posted by RobSutton

I've just looked at Collybia fuscopurpurea in Fungi of Switzerland and they separate it (as not turning green in KOH) from a Collybia alkalivirens (turning green in KOH), so it's status certainly does seem confusing.

perhaps they aren't distinct . . .

Species Fungorum - Species synonymy

C

[RobSutton]

Thanks Chris - I'll see if I can get it (the asco) dried off and sent over.

The biformis description certainly adds more confusion to the picture

I didn't find much yesterday but of the ten or so species I found there were only two I was totally happy about identifying (a Postia caesia on Larch and Collybia butracea). I've still got two Mycena and a Coprinellus to have a go at and a couple of Inocybe species that I've been gnawing away at since I first found them weeks ago. Add to that a few Autumn Moth lookalikes from the moth traps that you need to dissect out the genitalia to get to species (I won't be) and it's certainly been a challenging weekend so far but I guess the day you stop enjoying finding out about stuff it will be time to give up.

[ManwithNoname]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

the original description of Marasmius biformis - the basionym of Collybia biformis (= Gymnopus biformis) is here:

Libri Fungorum - Page Image

the description of the cap: "pileo . . . luteo vel pallide brunneo, striatulo, in sicco pallide griseo . . . " - i.e. "yellow or pale brown, striate, pale grey when dry" doesn't seem to be much like this agaric

I agree. But just to add to the confusion, the photo of Gymnopus fuscopurpureus in Antonin and Noordeloos shows specimens with no purple or red-brown colours at all. They are dried out and orange-brown in colour, and a couple do clearly have a striate edge to the cap.

[ManwithNoname]

Originally Posted by RobSutton

I've just looked at Collybia fuscopurpurea in Fungi of Switzerland and they separate it (as not turning green in KOH) from a Collybia alkalivirens (turning green in KOH), so it's status certainly does seem confusing.

Unfortunately, Breitenbach and Kranzlin were relying on the work of others, which was already confused. Supposedly Antonin and Noordeloos's work, as the monograph, ought to be more definitive.

The Collybia fuscopurpurea in Fungi of Switzerland is synonymised with Gymnopus fagiphilus in the monograph, and the monograph refers to this photo in FoS as representing G. fagiphilus (there is no photo in the monograph). The specimens in the photo in FoS actually look more like the ones I photographed, although the habitat and nearby trees associated with that species don't fit with my specimens.

The Collybia alkavirens in FoS is synonymised with Gymnopus fuscopurpureus and the true G. alkavirens is not considered to be a European species. Your specimens look more like the Collybia alkavirens in FoS, so you may have Gymnopus fuscopurpureus as defined in the monograph. I wonder whether your specimens would have shown the green reaction with alkali under the microscope?

I doubt that has made things any clearer.