Collybia (Rhodocollybia), but look at those cheilocystidia ...

[SheffieldLass]

Another puzzler.

Under Crataegus, Nov-Dec.



Spores 6.5-7.6 (8.4) x 3.5 (4.5-5 (6)um. Spore print pale salmon pink.



But look at these cheilocystidia .... 55-75um long, 11-19um wide. Hardly inconspicuous. I can't find any listed with ones at that size.



Melanie

[Alantb]

Hi Melanie;
I assume you're just teasing - it's butyracea isn't it ? (I suppose the cap WAS 'buttery' or have I just made an unwarranted assumption? - Again). C. peronata has long cystidia with apical branches, sort-of, but it has darker gills.
What were the cap cells like? If I'm right about it being C. butyracea they should have been clamped parallel hyphae 2 to 3.5 um across.

Cheers, Alan

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Alantb

Hi Melanie;
I assume you're just teasing - it's butyracea isn't it ? (I suppose the cap WAS 'buttery' or have I just made an unwarranted assumption? - Again). C. peronata has long cystidia with apical branches, sort-of, but it has darker gills.
What were the cap cells like? If I'm right about it being C. butyracea they should have been clamped parallel hyphae 2 to 3.5 um across.

Cheers, Alan

I'm not sure if I am teasing .... When I picked it I thought it was going to be easy, a five minute ID job at most, confirming C butyracea. I routinely did the gill squash first, got those big cheilocystidia and as I didn't have detailed literature just filed it. So I checked the spores and decided it was C butyracea, just from the spore size and general look, though they weren't that buttery. And I never did a cap scalp. And they kept fruiting for a couple of months and I kept recording them as C butyracea though they always seemed a bit too dry and not quite how I remember C butyracea. When I got Funga Nordica I checked over it again and had doubts, seeing that cheilocystida picture again. But I couldn't see what else they could be. I'm pretty sure I never kept a specimen ... well who would keep C butyracea?

I'm now just double-checking everything as I get my records onto my database and I've come across those pics of the very large cheilocystidia again ... so I thought I'd throw it over to WAB for your reactions ...

I don't think I've got my pics mixed up but I'm just about to check that. I don't think anything else I picked that day has cheilocystidia ...

Melanie

[Chris Yeates]

hi Melanie

Fungi of Switzerland states 'cystidia and marginal cells not seen'; the original description of butyracea isn't that helpful either: Libri Fungorum - Page Image
no mention of absence / presence / type / of cystidia

thanks for reminding me why I like the micro-fungi harder to see but so often easier to give a name to with a degree of confidence

cheers

Chris

[mollisia]

Hello,

I have never heared of any Gymnopus or Rhodocollybia species with such regular, distinct cystidia. For being sure I crosschecked with the monograph of ANTONIN & NOORDELOOS and also there is no microscopical scetch which shows cystidia like yours. In my opinion the cystidia don't belong to the Rhodocollybia butyracea shown in the macroscopic foto.

best regards,
Andreas

[SheffieldLass]

I've checked the date and time I did the microphotos and can't link them with any other fungus that I collected then, so I think they will remain a mystery, but assume they are probably misfiled. But glad that others look at the macro photos of the fungus and say it is Rhodocollybia butyracea.

But I'll wait until the autumn and check them when they reappear, so I'll either then get correct photos of R butyracea or discover that they weren't misfiled.

Melanie

[NickCantle]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

But glad that others look at the macro photos of the fungus and say it is Rhodocollybia butyracea.

When did Collybia butyracea become Rhodocollybia butyracea?

[SheffieldLass]

I have an idea what happened ... having a closer look at the other microphotos which I haven't shown, I think the cystidia could well be Megacollybia platyphylla, though the spores are not distinct they certainly fit. And I do remember on one occasion crawling under the branches of a hawthorn for a fungus right by the trunk, which was also surrounded by quite a few R butyracea, which might have been this particular occasion. I suspect I put R butyracea for the spore print and used the other for the gill squash. And as it was meant to be a 5 minute job didn't actually make notes, which might have confirmed that was what happened.

So there are lessons 660-664 for me to relearn ...
660 - don't attempt a 5 minute ID at 2am,
661 - make sure your fungi are the same,
662 - always make notes as you do a gill squash,
663 - do the spore print from the same as the gill squash, particularly if you haven't done 661,
664 - take a photo of all the ones you actually collect not just some, even if you've crawled under and nearly had your eyes poked out by a hawthorn to get it .....

Melanie

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by NickCantle

When did Collybia butyracea become Rhodocollybia butyracea?

I'll try to find the link to a detailed explanation that Andreas gave when I asked something similar, after discovering that there are now only a few in Funga Nordica under Collybia. The majority are now under Gymnopus, the rest (pinkish spored ones) under Rhodocollybia.

Melanie

it is:

A few more for id

[NickCantle]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

I'll try to find the link to a detailed explanation that Andreas gave when I asked something similar, after discovering that there are now only a few in Funga Nordica under Collybia. The majority are now under Gymnopus, the rest (pinkish spored ones) under Rhodocollybia.

Melanie

I will be very grateful if you would do that Mel, thank you