Black Hypoxylon type fungus

[SheffieldLass]

I came across this one yesterday, on a fallen beech trunk, and thought with the help of the Pyrenomycetes website I'd be able to nail this one. So I put a bit under the microscope and was stumped. Any ideas?

The very large spores (I presume they are spores, if not what are they? they are very distinctive...) are 54-84um long, 6-9um wide. There were plenty of them.

There were also plenty of ascospores, hyaline, typically 6.1-7.2 x 1.6-2.1um, with asci 87-105 long, 4.8-7.4 wide.

So I'm not even sure which begins to this fungus. The sample that I took came from the edge of the main section. And I couldn't see that there were two different fungi in the sample I've got. But perhaps if it is black on black it would be difficult to see.






I also came across this Hypoxyon fragiforme on a different beech trunk, and assume that the cream to orange crusty bits are the anomorph stage, though it does look a bit different to the photos I've seen of it. The spore and perithecia sizes and shapes were spot on.



Melanie

[Chris Yeates]

hi Melanie

the large spores ring a (very distant) bell - I'll have to get back on them . . .

the asci in the micro shot are classic Diatrypaceae, probably a species of Eutypa; I think the 'black on black'* fungus could well be something called Berlesiella nigerrima which grows on old stromata of Eutypa species in spring; I don't see Berlesiella spores here (they are around 15-20 by 5-6 microns and have several cross septa and a longitudinal one)

* interestingly 'nigerrima' of course means 'more black'

inevitably I cast my mind back to the glorious This is Spinal Tap and Nigel Tufnell's meditation on their Black Album:

"It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black".

LOL

best

Chris

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

hi Melanie

the large spores ring a (very distant) bell - I'll have to get back on them . . .

the asci in the micro shot are classic Diatrypaceae, probably a species of Eutypa; I think the 'black on black'* fungus could well be something called Berlesiella nigerrima which grows on old stromata of Eutypa species in spring; I don't see Berlesiella spores here (they are around 15-20 by 5-6 microns and have several cross septa and a longitudinal one)

* interestingly 'nigerrima' of course means 'more black'

inevitably I cast my mind back to the glorious This is Spinal Tap and Nigel Tufnell's meditation on their Black Album:

"It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black".

LOL

best

Chris

Thanks for the guide towards Eutypa, that certainly looks as if it is on the right tracks. As you say, the Berlesiella nigerrima spores are not the right size or shape, but on the other hand not so very different. So maybe something in a closely related genus?

I did notice that one of the Xylariaceae occasionally produces 1 very big spore per ascus instead of the usual 8. Is that a fairly common occurrence, or rare? It wasn't like this particular spore as it didn't have cross septa, though the size was about right, but it made me wonder if these might be from a single spored ascus to be that large?

Melanie

P.S. With a single typo that becomes 'none more blank'... description of my mind when looking at these black on black fungi ... blank on blank ... and I'm now going to try to figure out how to draw a blank, I could be gone a while ...

... or I might just try to reformat my hard drive and reinstall Windows, so I could be gone even longer. If I'm quiet for a few days on here it will be because I've decided to do it and made a hash of it ...

[Alantb]

Hi Chris:
I've never seen it myself but B&K vol 1 has a species Melogramma spiniferum which produces spores like that big one. See also p 355 of Dennis.
Alan

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Alantb

Hi Chris:
I've never seen it myself but B&K vol 1 has a species Melogramma spiniferum which produces spores like that big one. See also p 355 of Dennis.
Alan

Thanks Alan

The spores are spot on, and I've got a sample from an adjacent beech stump (not examined yet) which looks exactly like it macroscopically, but without the Eutypa to confuse the issue. The spores are very big, and it appears that the asci are, not surprisingly, huge too. Some great pictures on the internet of them on various sites.

Melanie

[Alantb]

misteak

[Alantb]

Hi Melanie; looks like guesswork paid off for once! I quite like these obscure cinder-like things but I've never seen this one.
Concerning black bits, in 2008 Field Mycology had a series of articles about Hypoxylon by Roy Anderson which you might find interesting. Good things to look at while we wait for what my wife calls 'real' fungi to appear!
Cheers, Alan