ascocoryne?

[diggleken]

Ascocoryne spp I think - this looks like the description and pic in Jordan of A, cylichnium, mainly cos of distorted fruit body rather than flatter sarcoides, but its close.
On beech.
grateful for input and help.
And I do realise this is probably one for spore comparison!
cheers
Ken

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by diggleken

Ascocoryne spp I think - this looks like the description and pic in Jordan of A, cylichnium, mainly cos of distorted fruit body rather than flatter sarcoides, but its close.
On beech.
grateful for input and help.
And I do realise this is probably one for spore comparison!
cheers
Ken

With my very limited knowledge, , I would agree with your ID.
It looks very much like this, which I found on a Beech about a week back.

Regards
Mike.

[diggleken]

Thanks Mike - I'm comfy with that too, but will wait for the experts!!
Ken

[Chris Yeates]

hi

to me, Mike's fungus, which is forming cup-shaped fruitbodies could well be cylichnium; Ken's looks much more like the imperfect (conidial) stage of sarcoides (and not really flat); they don't actually look that similar to be fair . . . or is that just me?;
if the sarcoides was showing the perfect (cup) stage, they are actually less easy to separate . . . and I always check the spores at that stage (and have been surprised at times by the outcome)

cheers

Chris

[diggleken]

Hi Chris - this is another one to keep watching as it develops!
Cheers
Ken

[leifus]

Originally Posted by diggleken

Ascocoryne spp I think - this looks like the description and pic in Jordan of A, cylichnium, mainly cos of distorted fruit body rather than flatter sarcoides, but its close.
On beech.
grateful for input and help.
And I do realise this is probably one for spore comparison!
cheers
Ken

Ascocoryne sarcoides or another similar species which I can never remember the name of...........

[mollisia]

Originally Posted by Chris Yeates

if the sarcoides was showing the perfect (cup) stage, they are actually less easy to separate . . . and I always check the spores at that stage (and have been surprised at times by the outcome)

Hi Chris,

nice to find people looking at inoperculates too

What concerns Ascocoryne, there are three similar looking species. Besides sarcoides and cylichnium there is Ascocoryne inflata, which has the spore characteristics of sarcoides, but the spore size of cylichnium. This A. inflata always makes confusion and leades people sometimes to the conclusion that sarcoides and cylichnium can not always be separated. But they can of course!
It is important to look at the spores in living state, to verify the content of the spores (many guttules in appr. all the same size, or two big guttules and many tiny ones etc.). A. inflata has as characteristic above all the moniliform paraphyses with a head-like apec (hence the name inflatula). Also the anamorph is very different from that of A. sarcoides. The cylichnium-group is not known to have anamorphs, as far as I remember.

If you are interested in inoperculates: Do you know the DVD distributed by H.O. Baral and G. Marson? It is an unbelievable source of information, containg several thousand scanned working sheets of inoperculates, fotos, keys - all the work H.O. Baral has done up to now! And it is free!!! (Almost, I think they want 5 Euro for the shipping and handling). All keys and papers are in english, by the way.
If you don't have that one and you want to have it, I can mail you the mail adress of Guy Marson, who send this DVD on request.

best wishes,
Andreas

[mollisia]

Originally Posted by diggleken

Ascocoryne spp I think - this looks like the description and pic in Jordan of A, cylichnium, mainly cos of distorted fruit body rather than flatter sarcoides, but its close.
On beech.
grateful for input and help.
And I do realise this is probably one for spore comparison!
cheers
Ken

Hi Ken,

as Chris already stated, this is the anamorph Coryne dubia to the teleomorph Ascocoryne sarcoides. Ascocoryne cylichnium has only a teleomorph and no (visible) conidial state, and the anamorph of Ascocoryne inflata is white and looks different.

The two groups of Ascocoryne sarcoides (incl. A. inflata) on one hand and A. cylichnium on the other can also be separated by their fruitbodies. A. sarcoides is much gelified, full of water and feels like gelly, whereas cylichnium is only sparsely gelified and feels nearly carilagineous.

best regards,
Andreas

[diggleken]

Hi Andreas,
understood, many thanks, but doesnt the jellyness etc depend on how wet its been?
Cheers
ken

[mollisia]

Hello Ken,

Originally Posted by diggleken

Hi Andreas,
understood, many thanks, but doesnt the jellyness etc depend on how wet its been?
Cheers
ken

not really, except for the case that the fruitbodies dry out. Then A. inflata and sarcoides will probably shrink a little more then A. cylichnium.

I try to show a picture with the cut through fruitbodies of these three species. The fotos were made by H.O. Baral and are taken from his DVD "In vivo veritas". It is explicitely allowed by him to spread these, with the citation of the authorship of course. Let's see if it works ...



best regards,
Andreas