ascocoryne?

[diggleken]

Hi andreas,
terrific pics showing really well the cross sections - thanks a lot.
Ken

[SheffieldLass]

Thanks Andreas for the very useful info on Ascocoryne. Does anyone know whether we get A inflata here in the UK? I've not found any records in a quick googe. And the checklist only covers basidiomycota ...

Just dug out some notes I made last year of a couple of Ascocoryne species I found then, and it looks as if it confirms them both as A sarcoides, one in the immature stage and one at the mature stage. But from my notes the immature was much more gelatinous and actually sticky which the mature one wasn't ... so I'm wondering if that was due to how imbibed it was with water or whether there is a difference in texture between the immature and mature stages ...


I was also intrigued by the drops in the spores ... I presume from what Andreas says that A sarcoides and A inflata have consistently just the two big drops (plus some small ones), whereas A cyclichnium may have a few with 2 big drops but will have a variety of other combinations? On my notes I drew the spores as having just 2 big drops (and some little ones), but whether they were all like that (hmmm) ... I'll have to in future make sure they are truly representative of what I see, now that I know that ...

Melanie

[flaxton]

Melanie

A. inflata is not mentioned in either the BMS or the ABFG databases so I think you can assume it has not been found in the UK or at least not been identified as such.

Mal

[mollisia]

Hi Melanie,

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

Just dug out some notes I made last year of a couple of Ascocoryne species I found then, and it looks as if it confirms them both as A sarcoides, one in the immature stage and one at the mature stage. But from my notes the immature was much more gelatinous and actually sticky which the mature one wasn't ... so I'm wondering if that was due to how imbibed it was with water or whether there is a difference in texture between the immature and mature stages ...

In my opinion it is very likely that the first is Ascocoryne sarcoides. At least when the spore size and the drawing were made from living spores it would be sure that it is sarcoides. The 2nd one seems to me that it is the anamorph of A. sarcoides.

I was also intrigued by the drops in the spores ... I presume from what Andreas says that A sarcoides and A inflata have consistently just the two big drops (plus some small ones), whereas A cyclichnium may have a few with 2 big drops but will have a variety of other combinations? On my notes I drew the spores as having just 2 big drops (and some little ones), but whether they were all like that (hmmm) ... I'll have to in future make sure they are truly representative of what I see, now that I know that ...

Melanie

not exactly. A. cylichnium has only small to medium sized drops - the whole spore body filled with them. A. sarcoides and inflata have two or three (four) big oil drops and many tiny ones. Very important is, that you observe *living* spores and not dead one. In dead spores the oil pattern floats to one big unit without taxonomic value. Also in inoperculate ascomycetes the spore size as well as the ascus size shrinks remarkably in dead material. This make differences of 20-30 % ! So an ascus of 100 µm length in living state is dead only 70 µm long, the spore size of av. 24 µm in A. cylichnium shrinks to an av. of let say 19 µm in dead state! It is important to know that, because you will have problems in recognizing your fungi when you microscope living details and compare it with literatur that uses dead material (Fungi of switzerland e.g.)

I add a comparism of the spores of the three Ascocorynes. Besides these three there is still another one: A. solitaria, which has much smaller spores and a fifth, A. cerebriformis, which is unpublished yet, as I think.



I also add a picture of the same spores of A. cylichnium as in the first picture, but this time when KOH was added to kill them. So these are cylichnium spores in dead state. You surely will notice the difference. The spore content of the other Ascocoryne species behave the same way when dead, so you cannot use the oil content for species delimitation any more then.



All the pictures are again taken from the DVD of H.O. BARAl "in vivo veritas, 2005".

best regards,
Andreas

[mollisia]

Originally Posted by flaxton

Melanie

A. inflata is not mentioned in either the BMS or the ABFG databases so I think you can assume it has not been found in the UK or at least not been identified as such.

Mal

Hallo,

I just had a look in H.O. Barals provisional key and noticed, that A. inflata is not yet described up to now. So no chance to have it in Britain of course under this name, but certainly it exists also there. Just have a close look to the next 10 Ascocorynes you stumble over and may be you are lucky to find a not yet described species.
In earlier versions of his key it was called A. disciformis, if may be someone works with these unpublished papers.

best regards,
Andreas

[SheffieldLass]

Hi Andreas

Thanks very much for clarifying that. And for drawing attention to differences that may be present between live and dried or dead material. All very useful information, which I've made a note of, the sort of thing you don't generally get to read about, so shows the value of live forums like this ....

I'll now be on the look out for A inflata as well as the others.

Melanie