macrolepiota rhacodes var bohemica

[Minamoo]

I spotted a troupe of these a little over a week ago but they had only just started to emerge and so I left them to grow a bit bigger so that I could be 100% sure of my ID and so there'd be more to try. I went back to check on them every couple of days and when I went on Sunday, they looked like they'd be good size to pick today. I went back to pick them and the b*^^dy groundskeepers had mowed them all down. Every last one. I don't know whether to chase them and hit them over the head with their stupid lawn mowers or cry. Same fate was suffered by on Horse Mushroom and several large fairy rings. I don't mind so much about the latter two but these would have been my first M. Rhacodes var. Bohemica. All I can do now is hope that they pop up again over the next few weeks before I leave the country. How likely do you think that is?? I'm as sure of the ID as I can be without a spore print as the bits I salvaged to have a play with are whitish with large dark brown shaggy scales. The base is a light brown and very bulbous. The gills are a light pink and crowded. They were growing on grass under a rowan tree. When I first found them they had just started to emerge and were a brown blob on top of a circular white base. ARGH I am so annoyed right now! Sorry to vent but I figured if anyone would understand how peed off I am right now, it would be you guys!

[cybershot]

I recently found an emergent Meripilus giganteus - Giant Polypore and on a follow up monitoring visit I discovered someone, or more likely something, had ravaged it. Fortunately it recovered and I am hoping for great things over the coming months. Here's hoping I am not going to suffer the same sort of disappointment as Minamoo.



David

[Andy Overall]

Originally Posted by Minamoo

I spotted a troupe of these a little over a week ago but they had only just started to emerge and so I left them to grow a bit bigger so that I could be 100% sure of my ID and so there'd be more to try. I went back to check on them every couple of days and when I went on Sunday, they looked like they'd be good size to pick today. I went back to pick them and the b*^^dy groundskeepers had mowed them all down. Every last one. I don't know whether to chase them and hit them over the head with their stupid lawn mowers or cry. Same fate was suffered by on Horse Mushroom and several large fairy rings. I don't mind so much about the latter two but these would have been my first M. Rhacodes var. Bohemica. All I can do now is hope that they pop up again over the next few weeks before I leave the country. How likely do you think that is?? I'm as sure of the ID as I can be without a spore print as the bits I salvaged to have a play with are whitish with large dark brown shaggy scales. The base is a light brown and very bulbous. The gills are a light pink and crowded. They were growing on grass under a rowan tree. When I first found them they had just started to emerge and were a brown blob on top of a circular white base. ARGH I am so annoyed right now! Sorry to vent but I figured if anyone would understand how peed off I am right now, it would be you guys!

Last September I came across a large fruit body ofGrifola frondosa and as I was working at the time I vowed to pop back later, get some pics etc etc. I popped back within the hour and it was gone, nothing left of it. I was astonished, whoever it was must of been there at the same time that I discovered it, or shortly after, how freaky is that? This was one of many reminders to me, that if I came across anything of interest, fungi wise, then there is no time better than the present to collect it. I have lost count of the times I have left things for a few days only to return to find nothing, if someone else doesn't get them the squirrels will.

By the way just out of interest, M. rhacodes, is now Chlorophyllum rhacodes. Bon Voyage.

Andy

[Minamoo]

Originally Posted by Andy Overall

By the way just out of interest, M. rhacodes, is now Chlorophyllum rhacodes.

Oh thanks for that! I ID'd them using some books I got out of the library and the names of fungi keep changing! So is it now Chlorophyllum Rhacodes var. bohemica? or is it just C. Rhacodes and M Rhacodes var. bohemica?

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Minamoo

Oh thanks for that! I ID'd them using some books I got out of the library and the names of fungi keep changing! So is it now Chlorophyllum Rhacodes var. bohemica? or is it just C. Rhacodes and M Rhacodes var. bohemica?

Macrolepiota rhacodes var. bohemica (Wichanský) Bellù & Lanzoni 1987 (= Chlorophyllum brunneum)


Chlorophyllum brunneum (Farl. & Burt) Vellinga, Mycotaxon 83: 416 (2002)

Synonyms:
Lepiota rhacodes var. hortensis Pilát, Klic. urc. Hub hrib. bedl. (Praha): 242 (1951)
Lepiota bohemica Wichanský, Časopis Československých Houbařů 38: 103 (1961)
Macrolepiota rhacodes var. hortensis (Pilát) Wasser, Flora Gribov Ukrainy. Agarikoyve Griby (Kiev): 298 (1980)
Macrolepiota rhacodes var. bohemica (Wichanský) Bellù & Lanzoni, Beiträge zur Kenntnis der Pilze Mitteleuropas 3: 191 (1987)
Macrolepiota brunnea (Farl. & Burt) Wasser, Libri Botanici (Eching bei München) 9: 82 (1993)

Habitat: On soil in nitrogen enriched habitat such as compost heaps and manured flowerbeds.

Notes: Rarely reported or collected.

Distribution: Eng:

Extracted from Checklist of the British & Irish Basidiomycota

David

[Minamoo]

Okay you're going to have to excuse me as I am of the recently-converted-obsessive-mycologists variety and have NO idea what that means! lol! Sorry! Anyone care to translate? (This is like talking to a friend of mine who speaks Yorkshirenese.......or my American flatmates. I'm having to learn a whole new language. I keep having to get him to clarify what he means by "come over for tea" )

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Minamoo

Okay you're going to have to excuse me as I am of the recently-converted-obsessive-mycologists variety and have NO idea what that means! lol! Sorry! Anyone care to translate? (This is like talking to a friend of mine who speaks Yorkshirenese.......or my American flatmates. I'm having to learn a whole new language. I keep having to get him to clarify what he means by "come over for tea" )

Chlorophyllum brunneum is the current (since 2002) name for your species which has had several synonyms in the course of time, including Macrolepiota rhacodes var. bohemica


The check list produced by The Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew is a good reference for checking on the latest taxonomy:

http://www.basidiochecklist.info/index.htm

David

[Minamoo]

Super! Thanks David! That looks like a website I will be seeing a lot more of. I spotted a print copy of that checklist in the library but I don't know how recent it is so the website is probably the best for that.

Mina.

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Minamoo

Super! Thanks David! That looks like a website I will be seeing a lot more of. I spotted a print copy of that checklist in the library but I don't know how recent it is so the website is probably the best for that.

Mina.

And don't forget Mina, having personally fallen foul of quoting outdated facts from it, there is, as I discovered from mykonik (Nick Legon) the senior editor of the list, an annual amendment published, so tread warily.

David

[Andy Overall]

Originally Posted by cybershot

Chlorophyllum brunneum is the current (since 2002) name for your species which has had several synonyms in the course of time, including Macrolepiota rhacodes var. bohemica


The check list produced by The Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew is a good reference for checking on the latest taxonomy:

BasidiomycotaChecklist - Home

David

Whoops overlooked that one Apologies for that, I should of double checked with the checklist! Happens to the best of us. Its one of those species I've always been doubtful of as being any different from C. rhacodes, which is most likely what Minamoo found anyway.

Andy

[fairplay]

I'm surprised nobody has said anything about your description of the gills Mina, probably because it's all irrelevant now.

But quoting from Mushrooms by Roger Phillips (only coz I assume you have this book) it describes the gills as being white to cream later becoming brown spotted, but you mention the gills as being light pink which suggests the spore print would be pink, which in turn rules out Macrolepiota/Chlorophyllum and probably rules in a Pluteus sp. or most likely an Agaricus sp.

Sorry to chuck a spanner in the works (I'm good at that)

Neil.

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by fairplay

I'm surprised nobody has said anything about your description of the gills Mina, probably because it's all irrelevant now.

But quoting from Mushrooms by Roger Phillips (only coz I assume you have this book) it describes the gills as being white to cream later becoming brown spotted, but you mention the gills as being light pink which suggests the spore print would be pink, which in turn rules out Macrolepiota/Chlorophyllum and probably rules in a Pluteus sp. or most likely an Agaricus sp.

Sorry to chuck a spanner in the works (I'm good at that)

Neil.

It is all a bit academic since we will never know the identification for sure. And without even a photo there isn't much point in taking it further.

But the gills of Chlorophyllum rachodes are described in Flora Agaricina Neerlandica as white to cream, when touched reddish yellow to light red, orange, or yellow, later brown. So where does that get us.

Also worth noting that for a while Vellinga did not regard var bohemica as a separate species.

"[Chlorophyllum] bohemica is often recognised as a separate taxon... As was shown by De Kok and Vellinga... all the characters used to distinguish the two species form a continuum, and vary independently. Preliminary molecular studies have failed to separate the two taxa.

But later DNA studies now suggest it is a separate species. I think you would have to do some microscopy though, to be sure which species you had... and there is also Chlorophyllum olivieri, just to add to the confusion.

Ken

[Andy Overall]

Originally Posted by fairplay

I'm surprised nobody has said anything about your description of the gills Mina, probably because it's all irrelevant now.

But quoting from Mushrooms by Roger Phillips (only coz I assume you have this book) it describes the gills as being white to cream later becoming brown spotted, but you mention the gills as being light pink which suggests the spore print would be pink, which in turn rules out Macrolepiota/Chlorophyllum and probably rules in a Pluteus sp. or most likely an Agaricus sp.

Sorry to chuck a spanner in the works (I'm good at that)

Neil.

I agree with fungus ken that its all a bit academic, though the description by Minamoo also mentioned small brown blobs on a circular white base which describes very young Chlorophyllum. The light pink gills are interesting though ? some sort of light effect?

Andy

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by cybershot

Macrolepiota rhacodes var. bohemica (Wichanský) Bellù & Lanzoni 1987 (= Chlorophyllum brunneum)


Chlorophyllum brunneum (Farl. & Burt) Vellinga, Mycotaxon 83: 416 (2002)

Synonyms:
Lepiota rhacodes var. hortensis Pilát, Klic. urc. Hub hrib. bedl. (Praha): 242 (1951)
Lepiota bohemica Wichanský, Časopis Československých Houbařů 38: 103 (1961)
Macrolepiota rhacodes var. hortensis (Pilát) Wasser, Flora Gribov Ukrainy. Agarikoyve Griby (Kiev): 298 (1980)
Macrolepiota rhacodes var. bohemica (Wichanský) Bellù & Lanzoni, Beiträge zur Kenntnis der Pilze Mitteleuropas 3: 191 (1987)
Macrolepiota brunnea (Farl. & Burt) Wasser, Libri Botanici (Eching bei München) 9: 82 (1993)

Habitat: On soil in nitrogen enriched habitat such as compost heaps and manured flowerbeds.

Notes: Rarely reported or collected.

Distribution: Eng:

Extracted from Checklist of the British & Irish Basidiomycota

David

David - you have a friend for life if you keep quoting the (my !!) checklist !!

Nick

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by fairplay

I'm surprised nobody has said anything about your description of the gills Mina, probably because it's all irrelevant now.

But quoting from Mushrooms by Roger Phillips (only coz I assume you have this book) it describes the gills as being white to cream later becoming brown spotted, but you mention the gills as being light pink which suggests the spore print would be pink, which in turn rules out Macrolepiota/Chlorophyllum and probably rules in a Pluteus sp. or most likely an Agaricus sp.

Sorry to chuck a spanner in the works (I'm good at that)

Neil.

It might be that damned Gymnopilus though Neil !!

Nick

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by mykonik

David - you have a friend for life if you keep quoting the (my !!) checklist !!

Nick

It's invariably open in another tab for quick reference while browsing WAB Nick

David

[Minamoo]

Originally Posted by Andy Overall

I agree with fungus ken that its all a bit academic, though the description by Minamoo also mentioned small brown blobs on a circular white base which describes very young Chlorophyllum. The light pink gills are interesting though ? some sort of light effect?

Andy

The gills are a creamy pink. It's sort of hard to determine what it would have looked like though as for some reason, none of these books tell me what they're supposed to look like after having being run over by a lawn mower...... I've only managed to salvage a few little pieces of mushroom and have no idea when the shroomicide took place. The picture of the very young mushrooms I saw looks exactly like the pictures of M. Rhacodes var bohemica in Roger Phillips. Hopefully more will pop up and I can get pics next time and settle this once and for all.

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Minamoo

The gills are a creamy pink. It's sort of hard to determine what it would have looked like though as for some reason, none of these books tell me what they're supposed to look like after having being run over by a lawn mower...... I've only managed to salvage a few little pieces of mushroom and have no idea when the shroomicide took place. The picture of the very young mushrooms I saw looks exactly like the pictures of M. Rhacodes var bohemica in Roger Phillips. Hopefully more will pop up and I can get pics next time and settle this once and for all.

Love your repartee Mina, and I say amen to your conclusion - this lot would even debate ad infinitum on the identity of a slime mold based on a paint blob on a tree stump It's all good fun don't you agree and even a bit informative at times

David

[Steve Wurzel]

Originally Posted by Andy Overall

I have lost count of the times I have left things for a few days only to return to find nothing, if someone else doesn't get them the squirrels will.

Squirrels!!.. seriously do squirrels eat funghi?

that would explain a lot of strange dissapearances of some choice edibles, and some relatively hard to identify as well, gone without leaving a trace. Thinking about it now all of the dissapearances were in woods at ground level, I suspect a rat or mouse may have been the culprit, unless squirrels don't deem oysters and chicken in the wood as edible!!

Sorry to digress

[CapAndBracket]

squiresls, Rabbits, Beaver they all take some fungi, the curious bit is that some fungi deemed poisonousseem to be eaten by rodents whith out doing them harm.

Cheers J.P.

[Andy Overall]

Originally Posted by Steve Wurzel

Squirrels!!.. seriously do squirrels eat funghi?