Lactarius sp. for ID please

[Nettle Runner]

Anston Stones Wood 28/19 June 2008

Found this single specimen growing amongst the roots of a beech tree.



Cap 40 / 50mm dia
stem 20mm

On looking at the books on Saturday PM considered it might be Russula or Lactarius, but had not checked for milk. So returned on Sunday AM to confirm it had milk.





Then found a second solitary specimen in the leaf litter, growing on wood, which I think is the same sp as the first.

Cap 25mm
Stem 25 x 4/6mm

Could these both be Lactarius rufus

Your comments and observations welcomed

Les

[FungiJohn]

Did you taste the milk Les? Lactarius rufus is initially mild but soon turns quite hot and acrid. However, so do many others

It is quite a robust species IMO but does flatten out leaving a central depression as your image shows. The stipe also seems correct for this species too. The dull red cap is quite distinctive ... once someone shows you the first

The main problem I have is Beech, I would have expected pines

John

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by Nettle Runner

Anston Stones Wood 28/19 June 2008

Found this single specimen growing amongst the roots of a beech tree.



Cap 40 / 50mm dia
stem 20mm

On looking at the books on Saturday PM considered it might be Russula or Lactarius, but had not checked for milk. So returned on Sunday AM to confirm it had milk.





Then found a second solitary specimen in the leaf litter, growing on wood, which I think is the same sp as the first.

Cap 25mm
Stem 25 x 4/6mm

Could these both be Lactarius rufus

Your comments and observations welcomed

Les

Doubtful if this is L. rufus Les - more likely something like Lactarius subdulcis or Lactarius tabidus - especially if under beech (as John says, L. rufus usually associated with pines)

Did you test the latex for 'yellowing' on a handerchief (or similar bit of white cloth) ?

Nick

[Nettle Runner]

Nick
No, did not do hanky test, but will have a quick run into the woods this evening to check. I left the one on the Beech undisturbed (must have known you would want more)

Incidentally, I did notice that the one on Beech gave up milk slowly, whilst the one found on the ground, on wood, spurted the milk out rapidly. I will see if I can find the remains of this one too.

Les

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by Nettle Runner

Nick
No, did not do hanky test, but will have a quick run into the woods this evening to check. I left the one on the Beech undisturbed (must have known you would want more)

Incidentally, I did notice that the one on Beech gave up milk slowly, whilst the one found on the ground, on wood, spurted the milk out rapidly. I will see if I can find the remains of this one too.

Les

Hello Les,

I look forward to your further observations re: the Lactarius.

I trust that I am not telling you something that you are already aware of but the following may be of interest....

One thing that it is always worth remembering with Lactarii of any description - always taste the latex (a tiny dab on the tip of one's tongue is quite sufficient - you can't be harmed by doing this since none are poisonous (not even L. turpis when 'ingested' in that quantity) but you do really need to identify the taste as a diagnostic criterion !

Some are quite hot but that is only a short lived phenomenon after tasting !

The other point is, always dab some latex on a white piece of cloth and wait a short while to see if there is any colour change - especially relevant with those 'russet brown to greyish brown' species that are a similar colour to the one you have photographed.

With most other species in Lactarius, the handkerchief test is irrelevant but then one should always make a cut across the gills to allow some latex to escape and then see if it (the latex) changes colour when left on the gills to dry for a while- any colour change in that situation is is quite relevant for several species.

Smell is also something else one should take into consideration since it may sometimes be important - Lactarius gyciosmus and the coconut-toffee smell is one example where it is useful (if not absolutely diagnostic in that case, and alleviates the need for microscopy !)

Nick

[fairplay]

Nick,

Roughly 4 years ago, I found Lactarius helvus on damp heathland and was only able to find out what the species was after drying when it gave off it's characteristic 'fenugreek' smell.

I've kept it in my makeshift herbarium ever since, but had a sort out a few days ago and despite being in a sealed plastic sandwich bag, as soon as I took the lid off the ice cream tub I keep some samples in, the odour was as strong as ever, my flat smelt like a curry house for 2 days !!

Do you have any idea how long the fenugreek smell lasts for ? (not that I mind)

Neil.

[shroomboy]

Good tips Nick. L. fulvissimus can also be thrown into the mix.

Andy

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by fairplay

Nick,

Roughly 4 years ago, I found Lactarius helvus on damp heathland and was only able to find out what the species was after drying when it gave off it's characteristic 'fenugreek' smell.

I've kept it in my makeshift herbarium ever since, but had a sort out a few days ago and despite being in a sealed plastic sandwich bag, as soon as I took the lid off the ice cream tub I keep some samples in, the odour was as strong as ever, my flat smelt like a curry house for 2 days !!

Do you have any idea how long the fenugreek smell lasts for ? (not that I mind)

Neil.

Years is the answer to that question !

Some of the specimens in Kew herbarium, collected in the 1960's still smell strongly ! As do specimens of Lactarius camphoratus, even older than that !

And the other famous one that smells even more strongly (when dried) of curry powder (or fenugreek if you wish) is the little stalked gasteromycete, Phleogena faginea, not uncommon on dead standing trees (occasionally also on living ones) - the smell is still present (strongly) in specimens collected in the late 1800's !

Nick

[fairplay]

Hmmmm.... I suppose therefore as long as it still pongs it is still viable for use in curry dishes as so little will be required - not that I plan to crumble any up into my food.

For shelf life, I guess it's best to look at the use by dates on curry jars to get a rough idea.

Cheers Nick,

Neil.

[CloudedYellow]

Originally Posted by mykonik

The other point is, always dab some latex on a white piece of cloth and wait a short while to see if there is any colour change - especially relevant with those 'russet brown to greyish brown' species that are a similar colour to the one you have photographed.

I was aware this helps with the field id for L. tabidus Nick - is it diagnostic for tabidus or do other Lactarius sp. do likewise?

Originally Posted by mykonik

With most other species in Lactarius, the handkerchief test is irrelevant but then one should always make a cut across the gills to allow some latex to escape and then see if it (the latex) changes colour when left on the gills to dry for a while- any colour change in that situation is is quite relevant for several species.

This is a new tip for me, would you happen to know which of the commoner sp this applies to?

Thanks

Richard

[Nettle Runner]

The fungi at the base of the Beech would not give up any milk.
It was not stable any longer and toppled over. It did have the smell of rubber, though.

The other fungi could not be found, guess the slugs had enjoyed a meal.

Nick, you are always telling me something I am not aware of and I thank you for that. Will try harder next time

Did notice a few new fungi had emerged in the search area (not lactarius), showing how rapidly the fungal season is progressing. No time for pics, unfortunately.

Les

[fairplay]

Richard,

One of the obvious ones is Lactarius chrysorrheus but I suspect you know of that one changing it's latex from white to yellow already.

Neil.

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by CloudedYellow

I was aware this helps with the field id for L. tabidus Nick - is it diagnostic for tabidus or do other Lactarius sp. do likewise?



This is a new tip for me, would you happen to know which of the commoner sp this applies to?

Thanks

Richard

Richard,

Without going into huge detail about this (and rabbiting on for hours) I would recommend getting, if you don't already have it, the Lactarius volume of Fungi of Northern Europe by Jan Vesterholt et. al. - I'm certain that you can get this from Summerfield Books (see their web site), it is worth every penny and gives full details of all the european Lactarii, with the addition of wonderful colour photos.

Nick

[CloudedYellow]

Originally Posted by mykonik

Richard,
I would recommend getting, if you don't already have it, the Lactarius volume of Fungi of Northern Europe by Jan Vesterholt et. al. - I'm certain that you can get this from Summerfield Books (see their web site), it is worth every penny and gives full details of all the european Lactarii, with the addition of wonderful colour photos.
Nick

Thanks Nick, I will put it on my pre-Christmas list!

Richard