Info on distinguishing Daldinia sp. sought please

[CloudedYellow]

I found some old Daldinia on a burnt log today. Difficult to know what the log was but could have been Ash ie it may just be Daldinia concentrica. But I know that Daldinia vernicosa is associated with burnt wood (or is it just burnt gorse?)

I would like to find out about the various Daldinia sp. in the UK, in particular differentiating them using microscopic features but I cannot find any information. It may be that what I found today is too far gone but can anyone tell me where I can find such info please?

Thx.

Richard

[fairplay]

Good question, I'd like to know too.

There was an article in Field Mycology some time ago, forget which one, but I don't think microscopic features were shown.

Neil.

[Alantb]

The alleged distinctions between Daldinia concentrica and D. vernicosa are (1) D. concentrica grows mainly on Ash while D. vernicosa tends to be on Gorse [as said above] and (2) the perithecia in D. concentrica are in a single row while those on D. vernicosa are in a double row. I have looked for vernicosa on gorse and found it only once and the specimens were not very good but additionally they had a short 'stipe' attaching them to the tree.
The info about the perithecia came from Nordic Macromycetes Vol 1, (which has its detractors, being rather incomplete) but it also claims that D. conc grows on Betula and Alnus (not Ash!) and D. vern on Populus, 'especially when burnt'.
The article on Daldinia is on page 80 of FM July 2001 and is a short discussion mentioning five European species, (D. loculata, fissa and petrinii in addition to the other two) but gives no very useful hints to ID except substrate.
Best of luck!
Alan

[poschiavanus]

Ellis & Ellis in "Microfungi on Land Plants" give ascospore sizes as follows:

• D. concentrica: Ascospores black, 12-18 x 6-10 microns (p. 140)
• D. vernicosa: Ascospores dark brown, 7-12 x 4.5-7 microns. (p. 264)

Additional substrates listed for D. concentrica include Acer, Alnus, Betula, Fagus, Salix.

HTH,

poschiavanus

[fairplay]

Thanks Alan and HTH, most helpful.

Didn't think to look in Ellis & Ellis as I would not think they came under micro-fungi.

Neil.

[NickCantle]

LOL Neil, Poschiavanus was the author of the post. HTH is 'Hope that helps'

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by NickCantle

LOL Neil, Poschiavanus was the author of the post. HTH is 'Hope that helps'

I've been thinking who HTH was too

[NickCantle]

All this fungi chat is going to your heads lads

[fairplay]

Dohhh !! I'm getting there, I'm getting there (slowly!)

I've had very little sleep lately, this dammed WAB is flipping addictive.
Nick, you must be getting even less sleep than I get,so don't you let your studies suffer.

Neil.

[CloudedYellow]

Thanks Alan and poschiavanus,

On appearance alone the Daldinia I found looked like concentrica, both when attached to the burnt log and in cross section. I have seen vernicosa and those like Alan describes had a small 'stipes'. I didn't think to take one to look for other features as they were on burnt gorse (ie little doubt in id).

Finding spores from my presumed concentrica proved to be as difficult as expected - I wonder if anyone has any tips? I didn't have much time last night but scraped out some of the softer material (ie several layers below the outer surface) and used congo red in 10% ammonia. I managed to find just one ascus containing three spores measuring 11x3.8u which suggests vernicosa! I will have another look this evening.

The only reference on the net I could find for different Daldinia sp. was an American site which lists some 20 species including concentrica but none of the other names I recognise so do not seem to be European sp.

Richard