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04-05-2008, 04:28 PM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 111
| | | Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Anyone offer an opinion on these?   
Found in Jim's garden the other day. Iv'e keyed them out as far as Entoloma I beleive - pink spored, adnexed gills, mealy smell - but my literature runs out of matches after that - I don't have any specific texts on the genus.
Any ideas? (Jim is very keen to know if it's rare!).
Last edited by FungiJus; 04-05-2008 at 04:30 PM.
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04-05-2008, 05:17 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yeovil, Somerset
Posts: 843
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by FungiJus  Anyone offer an opinion on these?
Found in Jim's garden the other day. Iv'e keyed them out as far as Entoloma I beleive - pink spored, adnexed gills, mealy smell - but my literature runs out of matches after that - I don't have any specific texts on the genus.
Any ideas? (Jim is very keen to know if it's rare!). | Hi FungiJus - before I even venture an opinion (although you are right about it being an Entoloma] can you find out if it is growing anywhere near either Hawthorn ( Crataegus) or such things as Roses (or even shrubs in the Rosaceae !)
Nick |
04-05-2008, 08:48 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hindhead
Posts: 971
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
You might want to think about Entoloma saundersii which I think is what Nick is getting at. |
12-05-2008, 12:26 AM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 111
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Right, apologies for the delay, Jim's been difficult to pin down this week.
Thanks for the info Nick & Leif and yes, there is a dog rose growing abundantly just the other side of the fence - about six feet away from the furthest specimens.
I did some searching under saundersii as you suggest leif and this does indeed look to be rare (24 records in the BMS FRDBI, oddly, the same number as for Fomitopsis pinicola).
Would be interested to hear your views now we know its association.
Cheers
J. |
12-05-2008, 09:20 PM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Market Weighton, East Yorkshire
Posts: 232
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by FungiJus Right, apologies for the delay, Jim's been difficult to pin down this week.
Thanks for the info Nick & Leif and yes, there is a dog rose growing abundantly just the other side of the fence - about six feet away from the furthest specimens.
I did some searching under saundersii as you suggest leif and this does indeed look to be rare (24 records in the BMS FRDBI, oddly, the same number as for Fomitopsis pinicola).
Would be interested to hear your views now we know its association.
Cheers
J. |
What about the more common entoloma clypeatum which also occurs under shrubs of the rosacea family
Pete |
12-05-2008, 09:40 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yeovil, Somerset
Posts: 843
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by watsthat What about the more common entoloma clypeatum which also occurs under shrubs of the rosacea family
Pete | The fungus illustrated in the FungiJus' image is too 'chunky' for Entoloma clypeatum and the pileus is not the 'typically' greyish colour of that taxon - there are other species that are associated with various species in the Rosaceae but I'm pretty certain that this can only be E. saundersii by the look of it ! HOWEVER (a disclaimer !) again, only microscopy would give the definitive diagnosis. and this is the type of thing that really should go to Kew so that the record of this rarity is validated and can stand as not just another (worthless) paper record !
Nick  |
12-05-2008, 10:15 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 111
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Excellent.
I have some dried specimens, albeit the smaller ones from my photo, and a spore print for what it's worth, together with the photos and admittedly rather scant collection notes made at the time - specifically the smell, location, date and now of course the association.
I know that you have detailed the procedure before Nick but I'm afraid I don't remember which thread it was posted against. I seem to remember that it needs to go in the freezer for a while (?), then sensibly boxed and posted to 'Kew'. Looking at their website, they have detailed the main requirements
(but don't mention the freezer).
I will attempt to collect the larger, more mature specimens too, if Jim hasn't cut his grass yet, fingers crossed. |
12-05-2008, 10:17 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,307
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
So what about these specimens found growing under a variety of bushes, including hawthorn, in my local park?  
I was out walking the dog so didn't have anything sensible to put the specimens in. I brought a couple of specimens back in a plastic bag and by the time I came to look at them they were a writhing mass of maggots. So no microscopic info I'm afraid. I haven't yet had time to go back to see if the others have survived.
Ken |
12-05-2008, 10:26 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,307
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
PS My Entoloma specimens had a very distinctive and unusual smell - one that I couldn't place but it was not a meally smell. |
13-05-2008, 12:17 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: York
Posts: 1,346
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by FungiJus Excellent.
(but don't mention the freezer).
. | I think the freezer is only necessary if you are intending to keep for any lenght of time. Drying is enough to send for identification.
Mal |
13-05-2008, 10:22 AM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yeovil, Somerset
Posts: 843
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by FungiJus Excellent.
I have some dried specimens, albeit the smaller ones from my photo, and a spore print for what it's worth, together with the photos and admittedly rather scant collection notes made at the time - specifically the smell, location, date and now of course the association.
I know that you have detailed the procedure before Nick but I'm afraid I don't remember which thread it was posted against. I seem to remember that it needs to go in the freezer for a while (?), then sensibly boxed and posted to 'Kew'. Looking at their website, they have detailed the main requirements
(but don't mention the freezer).
I will attempt to collect the larger, more mature specimens too, if Jim hasn't cut his grass yet, fingers crossed. | Hi FungiJus
Specimens to be sent to Kew go to......
Mycology Dept.
The Jodrell Laboratory,
Royal Botanic Gadens,
KEW,
Richmond,
Surrey
TW9 3AB You don't need to freeze material to send [and you NEVER freeze fresh material !!] but it MUST be dried and have all the relevant notes with it re: habitat, location, map. ref. (if possible), date of collection, feature of the specimen when fresh (colour, smell, taste etc.), any associated plants ( Rosa sp. in this case !) - and it helps if you say what you think it might be as well ( Entoloma saundersii in this case).
I'd be interested to know what the outcome is !
Nick  |
13-05-2008, 10:24 AM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yeovil, Somerset
Posts: 843
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fungus Ken So what about these specimens found growing under a variety of bushes, including hawthorn, in my local park?
I was out walking the dog so didn't have anything sensible to put the specimens in. I brought a couple of specimens back in a plastic bag and by the time I came to look at them they were a writhing mass of maggots. So no microscopic info I'm afraid. I haven't yet had time to go back to see if the others have survived.
Ken |
This could be Entoloma clypeatum I guess - especially since you say the Crataegus was present !
Nick |
13-05-2008, 10:57 AM
|  | Knight of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sheffield
Posts: 5,664
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykonik Hi FungiJus
Specimens to be sent to Kew go to......
Mycology Dept.
The Jodrell Laboratory,
Royal Botanic Gadens,
KEW,
Richmond,
Surrey
TW9 3AB You don't need to freeze material to send [and you NEVER freeze fresh material !!] but it MUST be dried and have all the relevant notes with it re: habitat, location, map. ref. (if possible), date of collection, feature of the specimen when fresh (colour, smell, taste etc.), any associated plants ( Rosa sp. in this case !) - and it helps if you say what you think it might be as well ( Entoloma saundersii in this case).
I'd be interested to know what the outcome is !
Nick | Hi Nick
Are there any species which Kew would be particularly interested in?
As you know, Clumber Park seems to reveal some odd types. Would it be useful to send future 'odd' finds?
John |
13-05-2008, 09:50 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 111
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Thanks all. I went back to find the bigger specimen but alas it had gone, however there was a fresh collection and amongst the maggot infested ones there were some which appeared in good condition so they are now in the airing cupboard after having been photographed.
The RBG Website (not sure if we are allowed to link to external sites, but you will find it no problem) says that there are happy to receive "even quite common species" provided they match all their criteria for records, material presentation, etc. |
13-05-2008, 09:59 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yeovil, Somerset
Posts: 843
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by FungiJohn Hi Nick
Are there any species which Kew would be particularly interested in?
As you know, Clumber Park seems to reveal some odd types. Would it be useful to send future 'odd' finds?
John | Hi John,
The simple answer is NO - anything of interest is of interest (!!) but they like things that are considered rare or uncommon, and material from under-recorded places (counties) in Britain is usually welcome.
However I should point out that they do not like large amounts of unknown material sent for naming or material that has had no effort put into naming it, and collections really should be sent in small numbers on each occasion.
Any material should always be sent dried, with full details of the fresh specimen (smell, taste, size etc) and all the releveant data (collection date, location, map ref. etc, habitat, associated plants or trees etc).
Nick
Last edited by FungiJohn; 15-05-2008 at 01:01 AM.
Reason: typo
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15-05-2008, 01:03 AM
| | Knight of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sheffield
Posts: 5,664
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykonik Hi John,
The simple answer is NO - anything of interest is of interest (!!) but they like things that are considered rare or uncommon, and material from under-recorded places (counties) in Britain is usually welcome.
However I should point out that they do not like large amounts of unknown material sent for naming or material that has had no effort put into naming it, and collections really should be sent in small numbers on each occasion.
Any material should always be sent dried, with full details of the fresh specimen (smell, taste, size etc) and all the releveant data (collection date, location, map ref. etc, habitat, associated plants or trees etc).
Nick | Thanks for this Nick, it's very useful.
John |
18-05-2008, 01:51 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Market Weighton, East Yorkshire
Posts: 232
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykonik The fungus illustrated in the FungiJus' image is too 'chunky' for Entoloma clypeatum and the pileus is not the 'typically' greyish colour of that taxon - there are other species that are associated with various species in the Rosaceae but I'm pretty certain that this can only be E. saundersii by the look of it ! HOWEVER (a disclaimer !) again, only microscopy would give the definitive diagnosis. and this is the type of thing that really should go to Kew so that the record of this rarity is validated and can stand as not just another (worthless) paper record !
Nick | Well here`s an example found in April last year. I had it as Entoloma clypeatum but now I`m not sure. It was found under hawthorn. 
Pete
Last edited by watsthat; 18-05-2008 at 01:57 PM.
Reason: mistake
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18-05-2008, 07:14 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yeovil, Somerset
Posts: 843
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by watsthat Well here`s an example found in April last year. I had it as Entoloma clypeatum but now I`m not sure. It was found under hawthorn.
Pete | Hi Pete,
It could be E. clypeatum but the photo is a little indistinct to be certain - but it seems the most likely !
Nick |
18-05-2008, 08:21 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Market Weighton, East Yorkshire
Posts: 232
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykonik Hi Pete,
It could be E. clypeatum but the photo is a little indistinct to be certain - but it seems the most likely !
Nick | Thanks for that Nick. Hopefully my observational recording and photography have improved since last year.
Pete |
09-06-2008, 01:25 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Milton Keynes
Posts: 111
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Well I got a response back from Peter Roberts at Kew who confirms that it is indeed Entoloma saundersii and he has added the material to the herbarium. The record hasn't appeared on the FRDBI yet, but I guess it will in time.
I have to echo the centiments of another contributor to the forum (sorry, can't remember who) in saying that there was very little chance of me getting this far without the help of this forum, so thanks again Nik, Leif et al. |
09-06-2008, 09:02 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Yeovil, Somerset
Posts: 843
| | | Re: Need some help with a neighbour's Entoloma
Quote:
Originally Posted by FungiJus Well I got a response back from Peter Roberts at Kew who confirms that it is indeed Entoloma saundersii and he has added the material to the herbarium. The record hasn't appeared on the FRDBI yet, but I guess it will in time.
I have to echo the centiments of another contributor to the forum (sorry, can't remember who) in saying that there was very little chance of me getting this far without the help of this forum, so thanks again Nik, Leif et al. | Well found !
A nice rare one !!
And, a nice validated record of a rare one since it's in Kew and no one can argue with the diagnosis !
Nick | | |
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