A plethora of Coprinii

[flaxton]

Still searching for the elusive ml but did manage to find St Georges Wood Blewits and this selection of Coprinii

The first one was I suspected a atramentarius but it was much slimmer than usual It doesn't have a distinct umbo of acuminata and the squamules although are slightly red I don't think they are bright enough for romagnesiana so it might just be atramentarius.



The second one is I think micaceus



The third lone specimen probably domesticus



and the final one was in the area of the micaceus but was almost 7cm across


Thoughts and suggestions please

Mal

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by flaxton

Still searching for the elusive ml but did manage to find St Georges Wood Blewits and this selection of Coprinii

The first one was I suspected a atramentarius but it was much slimmer than usual It doesn't have a distinct umbo of acuminata and the squamules although are slightly red I don't think they are bright enough for romagnesiana so it might just be atramentarius.



The second one is I think micaceus



The third lone specimen probably domesticus



and the final one was in the area of the micaceus but was almost 7cm across


Thoughts and suggestions please

Mal

I think that you are absolutely correct with the first three Mal and the fourth I can only guess about since I can't get the image !

Nick

[Fungus Ken]

With the rusty coloured veil on the cap and the base of the stem, I think the first could be Coprinopsis romagnesiana (distinguished macroscopically from Coprinopsis atramentaria by the colour of the veil).

Ken

[flaxton]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

With the rusty coloured veil on the cap and the base of the stem, I think the first could be Coprinopsis romagnesiana (distinguished macroscopically from Coprinopsis atramentaria by the colour of the veil).

Ken

And microscopically any differences?

I seem to have upload problems with the final image so here it is again.

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by flaxton

And microscopically any differences?

I seem to have upload problems with the final image so here it is again.

That is Coprinellus domesticus - with rusty brown Oozonium state at base of stipe and all along the log and the 'volvate' (false volvate should I say !) stipe base !


Nick

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

With the rusty coloured veil on the cap and the base of the stem, I think the first could be Coprinopsis romagnesiana (distinguished macroscopically from Coprinopsis atramentaria by the colour of the veil).

Ken

Yes, that would be a reasonable assumption if C. atramentaria didn't occasionally also have a slightly scaly cap (the scales being sepia to reddish-brown) - I got caught out like that when I was at Kew and found a huge clump of obvious C. romagnesiana near Richmond - but when the spores of mine were measured they fitted exactly with C. atramentaria !

Spores of C. romagnesiana sensu Singer, are somewhat shorter than those of C. atramentaria but roughly the same shape (albeit with a slightly differently shaped germ pore !). It fits the original interpretation of Bresadola's as well [as Coprinus atramentarius var. squamosus Bresadola]

The situation is complicated by the fact that C. romagnesiana sensu Romagnesi has much longer and differently shaped spores and is (as yet) not British - it is probably an undescribed taxon that looks similar to C. romagnesiana sensu Singer !

Confused ?? It's all (always ?) down to the microscopy again !

Nick

[NickCantle]

In fact I immediately thought of my misidentified C. micaceus when I saw that photograph. I've included it below. I guess we're definitely looking at C. domesticus



Nick

[flaxton]

Originally Posted by mykonik

Confused ?? It's all (always ?) down to the microscopy again !

Nick

As I only have the spore sizes for atramentarius 8-11 x 5-6 what size should I be looking for to "prove" it is or is not this species?

Mal

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by flaxton

As I only have the spore sizes for atramentarius 8-11 x 5-6 what size should I be looking for to "prove" it is or is not this species?

Mal

C. atramentaria spores --- within the range 8 - 11 x 5-6 mu. ellipsoid to slightly amygdaliform and with a truncated germ pore i.e looks as if abruptly cut-off)

C. romagnesiana sensu Singer --- within the range 8 -9 (9.5) x 4.5 5.5 (6) mu., ellipsoid to (rarely) amygdaliform and with a rounded, central germ pore i.e the germ pore is not abruptly 'cut-off'

C. romagnesiana sensu Romagnesi --- within the range 11 -12 (13) x 4.5 - 5.5mu., distinctly fusiform to amygdaliform, appearing slightly ellipsoid in face view i.e very different from the above two !


Nick

[Fungus Ken]

According to Flora Agaricina Neerlandica Volume 6 (published 2005):

Coprinopsis atramentaria spores 6.5-10.5 x 4-6.5 microns, Q = 1.4-1.95, average Q = 1.5-1.75, average length = 7.9-9.3 microns, average breadth = 4.6-5.9 microns,

Coprinopsis romagnesiana Sing. spores 10.0-11.5 x 5.5-6.5 microns, Q = 1.55-1.95, average Q = 1.80, average length = 7.9-9.3 microns, average breadth = 4.6-5.9 microns

So that probably doesn't help matters!

Ken

[flaxton]

Thanks lads