Curio for ID

[CapAndBracket]

Found last Autumn on long dead willow (Salix), it was a dark buff colour and smooth to start with (see last little area at top) all over and gradually from bottom up turned white, then the surface seemed to flake away to reveal what looked like a mass of pores. Any ideas


Close up of surface.

Cheers J.P.

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

Found last Autumn on long dead willow (Salix), it was a dark buff colour and smooth to start with (see last little area at top) all over and gradually from bottom up turned white, then the surface seemed to flake away to reveal what looked like a mass of pores. Any ideas


Close up of surface.

Cheers J.P.

Hi JP.

This is just the 'initial' of a polypore 'bracket' i.e the very first growths of the hyphae forming the basidiome (fruitbody) but at this stage the structure is totally sterile and mostly undifferentiated into the various parts of the 'bracket' i.e pores, flesh, cap, stalk (if it has one) - the pores are forming, but are not yet fully formed, thus will not (yet) be able to produce basidia and then spores !

It's impossible to say what species any of these 'initials' will be, at this stage in their development although one can sometimes say what genus i.e Ganoderma's are quite distinctive in the field !

Nick

[flaxton]

Originally Posted by mykonik

Hi JP.



i.e Ganoderma's are quite distinctive in the field !

Nick

In what way Nick

Mal

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by mykonik

Hi JP.

This is just the 'initial' of a polypore 'bracket' i.e the very first growths of the hyphae forming the basidiome (fruitbody) but at this stage the structure is totally sterile and mostly undifferentiated into the various parts of the 'bracket' i.e pores, flesh, cap, stalk (if it has one) - the pores are forming, but are not yet fully formed, thus will not (yet) be able to produce basidia and then spores !

It's impossible to say what species any of these 'initials' will be, at this stage in their development although one can sometimes say what genus i.e Ganoderma's are quite distinctive in the field !

Nick

Very many thank's again, this had me completely foxed as it seemed to be the same all over, i understand what you say about Ganoderma.sp initials, i know where some are now, (i say that as they are on beech which has several Ganoderma.sp on it), these despite being intitials seem to have an upper and lower part which look different and are i assume going to be the upper and lower surface as they develope, i shall keep an eye on them with interst. (will get some photo's at the weekend time permiting).

Cheers J.P.

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by flaxton

In what way Nick

Mal

It's all 'intuition' Mal - Ganoderma australe and G. applanatum form large, smooth, rounded, white, 'lumps' as their initials (often on beech, and especially on old stumps for some unknown reason !) - there are often mature brackets somewhere else on the substrate so that gives some kind of clue - and in the case of the speci3es just mentioned they have a distinctive smell, strongly but pleasantly 'fungal' - otherwise it's down to having seen them so often that I just know what they are - even though they are featureless they still exhibit the 'jizz' of the species - it's probably also years of experience as well !

Other polypores do it but form much smaller initials - Fistulina hepatica forms rounded reddish lumps prior to these becoming basidiomes - Trametes gibbosa does it - even Trametes versicolor does it, one often coming across logs covered in small featureless white lumps which eventually become basidiomes if left to their own devices !

Thats all I can say !

Nick

[flaxton]

Thanks Nick

Mal

[CapAndBracket]

I'm assuming these are Ganoderma.sp initials, on beech with old brackets in place further up the trunk.

In the gallery next to them is i gess Bjerkandera adusta starting to form, on the same tree.

Cheers J.P.

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

I'm assuming these are Ganoderma.sp initials, on beech with old brackets in place further up the trunk.

In the gallery next to them is i gess Bjerkandera adusta starting to form, on the same tree.

Cheers J.P.

Hi JP - Yes Ganoderma sp. (initials) by the look of them - but the one that you said was Bjerkandera adusta is (just to ruin your day !!) is actually the conidial (asexual) state of the pyrenomycete ascomycete Kretzschmaria deusta (previously = Ustulina deusta) which fools everyone, so you are in good company !

Nick

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by mykonik

Hi JP - Yes Ganoderma sp. (initials) by the look of them - but the one that you said was Bjerkandera adusta is (just to ruin your day !!) is actually the conidial (asexual) state of the pyrenomycete ascomycete Kretzschmaria deusta (previously = Ustulina deusta) which fools everyone, so you are in good company !

Nick

Didn't ruin my day, in a way it made it worthwhile, these are the sort of mistakes i must make if my knowledge is going to leap forward (i use the term loosely).

The Kretzschmaria deusta was my other opiton, and these two have troubled me for some time, the other end of this tree (it snapped of a long time ago) has some nice brackets of Bjerdandera adusta and so i fell into the trap as they did start out somewhat resupinate.

So one is an ascomycete the other a basidiomycete, now there is the delicate question of fungal sex, the K.deusta is an asexual fruit body, so does the sexual form only occur in the hyphal stage (conjoined hypha of compatible mating types) and does this only occur in ascomycetes.

Iv'e got to grips with lepidoptera being the reverse of us genetically so can be asexual and some do use parthenogenesis (some when they don't find a mate and some bizzarly due to a bacterial infection), as a mode of reproduction.

I'm sure i've read all the answers in Jim Deacon's fine book "Fungal biology" but it is taking some time for me to assimilate it in a form that sticks.
many,many thanks for your comments.

Cheers J.P.

[mykonik]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

Didn't ruin my day, in a way it made it worthwhile, these are the sort of mistakes i must make if my knowledge is going to leap forward (i use the term loosely).

The Kretzschmaria deusta was my other opiton, and these two have troubled me for some time, the other end of this tree (it snapped of a long time ago) has some nice brackets of Bjerdandera adusta and so i fell into the trap as they did start out somewhat resupinate.

So one is an ascomycete the other a basidiomycete, now there is the delicate question of fungal sex, the K.deusta is an asexual fruit body, so does the sexual form only occur in the hyphal stage (conjoined hypha of compatible mating types) and does this only occur in ascomycetes.

Iv'e got to grips with lepidoptera being the reverse of us genetically so can be asexual and some do use parthenogenesis (some when they don't find a mate and some bizzarly due to a bacterial infection), as a mode of reproduction.

I'm sure i've read all the answers in Jim Deacon's fine book "Fungal biology" but it is taking some time for me to assimilate it in a form that sticks.
many,many thanks for your comments.

Cheers J.P.

Very briefly !

Asexual reproduction occurs in both ascomycetes and basidiomycetes of numerous taxa !

In the case of K. deusta - the greyish conidial stage occurs early in the year and is replaced later on by the sexual (ascospore producing) stage which is a blackish, brittle resupinate crust that forms often from the asexual stage.

Some polypores eg. some Postia sp. and some Ceriporiopsis sp. have quite obvious asexual stages (for instance Postia ptychogaster has Ptychogaster albusas it's conidial stage) and their are others such as Laetiporus sulphureus and Fistulina hepatica which can also form a conidial stage but only do so rarely !

As far as fungal mating habits go I am not going to go into that because it's phenominally complicated and not really a subject that could be discussed here (simply through lack of space on the mainframe I would think !).

Nor would it be possible to couch it in simplified terms JP so I think you will have to get the relevant literature which should provide enough 'light' bedtime reading to take you to Christmas ! (that's Christmas 2020 I would think !!)

Nick

[Fungus Ken]

There is obviously some considerable confusion over Bjerkandera adusta and K. deusta.

They are actually nothing like each other once you get to know them, but it probably doesn't help with clarity when the photo in the WAB A-Z reference of B. adusta currently shows mainly the conidial stage of K. deusta.

The brackets in the bottom left of the photo may well be Bjerkandera adusta, so the fact that the two can grow side by side probably adds to the confusion.

Ken

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

There is obviously some considerable confusion over Bjerkandera adusta and K. deusta.

They are actually nothing like each other once you get to know them, but it probably doesn't help with clarity when the photo in the WAB A-Z reference of B. adusta currently shows mainly the conidial stage of K. deusta.

The brackets in the bottom left of the photo may well be Bjerkandera adusta, so the fact that the two can grow side by side probably adds to the confusion.

Ken

In which case, to maintain accuracy Ken, please exercise your right to make the necessary edit in the A to Z.

cheers mate

David

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by cybershot

In which case, to maintain accuracy Ken, please exercise your right to make the necessary edit in the A to Z.

cheers mate

David

I would have done, had I not be rushing off to catch my train to work. It occurs to me now though, that I don't know what I need to edit when the wrong image has been used.

Should I amend the name to the correct species, and if I do so, does it move to the correct place alphabetically? Or should I just delete the image and wait for someone to replace it with a new one?

Ken

[cybershot]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

I would have done, had I not be rushing off to catch my train to work. It occurs to me now though, that I don't know what I need to edit when the wrong image has been used.

Should I amend the name to the correct species, and if I do so, does it move to the correct place alphabetically? Or should I just delete the image and wait for someone to replace it with a new one?

Ken

I would suggest replacing the image for the entry for B. adusta (or deleting and logging that a typical image is required as and when available), and creating a new entry for K. deusta using that misplaced image, or any others that are more representatively typical.

Thanks mate

David