Unidentified purple 'shroom!

[NickCantle]

yes Ken, you've got the right thread this time pal

This one was at first, in '06 labeled as Laccaria amethystina in my iPhoto library, then when I looked in '07, I laughed and changed it to Lepista nuda, now, I look at it, laugh again, think how much I've learned over the last year or so.

Thought I may as well utilise the WAB Pros

What do you reckon? I know it's not Laccaria and if it is Lepista, it's not Nuda. Perhaps Sordida?

What do we think?



Cheers!

Nick

[flaxton]

Nick
No one seems keen to jump in. Everything about it says Lepista so that is the start. Nuda tends to be larger than sordida and especially in the stipe. From your picture I would estimate the cap as 10cm which is at the top end for sordida or mid size for nuda but the stipe looks to be only c 1cm across which is much nearer the expected size for sordida. Nuda often has a bulbous base (Ignore that then)
In Courtecuisse sordida is split into various colour varieties and yours would fit with var lilacea but the Checklist now has them all combined and listed under sordida.
So for what its worth I would suggest Lepista sordida

Mal

[NickCantle]

Aha, thanks for the fine tuning there Mal. I had wondered if it fell into Sordida territory. Cheers mate!

Nick

[FungiJohn]

I would definitely say it is a left hand to which the life line is interrupted by some fungal activity

[NickCantle]

I can concur with John on that one

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by flaxton

No one seems keen to jump in.

Let me give you a quote from Flora Agaricina Neerlandica 3 which might give a clue as to why I am always reluctant to jump into the debate over the separation of these two species:

"Lepista nuda and Lepista sordida are very closely related species which are easy to distinguish in their typical state only."

Originally Posted by flaxton

Nuda tends to be larger than sordida and especially in the stipe. From your picture I would estimate the cap as 10cm which is at the top end for sordida or mid size for nuda but the stipe looks to be only c 1cm across which is much nearer the expected size for sordida.

The sizes quoted in some of the literature seem unreliable to me. FAN3 gives the size ranges as follows:

Lepista nuda - cap 25-100 mm, stem 5-15 mm broad
Lepista sordida - cap 20-60 mm, stem 2-7 mm broad

On the basis of your estimates, the specimen in the photo would be too large for Lepista sordida if the size ranges in FAN3 are to be believed.

Following on from the above extract from FAN3, the description says:

"Lepista nuda with bright violaceous colours in all parts of the rather fleshy basidiocarp and Lepista sordida with sordid beige-brown, grey-brown or red-brown colour of pileus and stipe, pinkish grey or pinkish brown lamellae, and thin fleshed basidiocarps.... Lepista sordida is considered here as a taxon with predominantly sordid brown colours."

It goes on to say:

"It is likely that several of the varieties of Lepista sordida described by Bon... are better considered as belonging within the variability of L. nuda."

In Lepista nuda, the cap is not supposed to be hygrophanous. In Lepista sordida the cap is hygrophanous and when moist it would have a translucently striate margin.

Without a view of the top of the cap, you are quite restricted in terms of knowledge of some of the important characters.

In my view, the colour of the gills visible in the photo might well suggest this is within the variability of Lepista nuda, and the overall dimensions would fit better with this species... if you follow the species concept being advocated in FAN3.

As ever, it seems different authors view things differently. For the time being I am inclined to follow FAN3.

Ken

[Fungus Ken]

Interestingly here are the equivalent size ranges from Nordic Macromycetes Volume 2:

Lepista nuda - cap 5-15 cm, stem 1.5-3 cm broad
Lepista sordida - cap 5-8 cm, stem 0.5-1 cm broad

Even on these measurements, the specimen in the photo would be at the very top of the size range for Lepista sordida, although I do think size is probably not the most reliable character here.

I would see the most important characters being whether or not the cap is hygrophanous and the overall colours, but with such closely related species I think you have to throw everything into the pot for consideration and then make a leap of faith on the best information available.

Unfortunately here we don't have a full deck of cards, so to speak.

Ken

[flaxton]

I almost added a rider to my reply saying "until Ken explains otherwise"

Courtecuisse has the sizes as
Lepista nuda - cap -15 cm, stem -3 cm broad
Lepista sordida - cap -10 cm, stem - 0.5 cm broad

Fungi of Switzerland

Lepista nuda - cap 5-20 cm, stem 1-3 cm broad
Lepista sordida - cap 2-8 cm, stem 0.3-0.8 cm broad

So as usual I have to agree with Ken's reasoning but the majority of Lepista nuda that I have identified have had a much stockier stipe than than in this case (unfortunately most of the sordida have had a thinner stipe )
I think I might take up golf

Mal

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by flaxton

I think I might take up golf

Mal

Don't leave! What on earth would we do without you.

Ken

[flaxton]

Wait for someone else to come up with a wrong suggestion