Herbivore dung - Have a dung day!

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by monkey

Here is a picture of a fungi I found in the New Forest 2 weeks ago, it was only about 25ml tall but I thought it was quite pretty and have not managed to identify it! I have just seen this thread and thought maybe you could help me



Thank you very much Linda

Here is how I would describe the cap of your specimen:

- shape conical
- colour rusty-brown, turning paler on drying (hygrophanous)
- translucently striate when moist ie you can see the gills through the cap as darker lines
- overall stature mycenoid (ie looks like a typical Mycena in stature but in this case the overall colours and habitat rule out the genus Mycena itself)

Together these characters would rule out any of the suggestions above. I don't think it is a Panaeolus or a Psilocybe and it is definitely not an Amanita. We don't have the spore colour, but I think it would probably have been ochre to rusty brown.

The characters point to the genus Conocybe, some species of which are saprotrophic on dung (ie feed by breaking down dung).

This genus contains a lot of species that are superficially similar and you can't really narrow the options down any further without microscopy.

Ken

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

This morning all samples showing Pilobolus.sp, it all seems a bit slow but i gess this is down to low temperature which according to the forecast dosn't look like improving this week.

Cheers J.P.

Just checked back and it was 1994 when I did my own experiment with sheep dung.

I kept a rough estimate of the numbers of visible Pilobolus fruiting bodies, taking a count every three days. On one sample the numbers shot up to about 3000 by day 6 and then gradually tailed off over the next two weeks. Presumably by this stage this fungus had used up all its available substrate, or perhaps it had been outcompeted by other groups of fungi.

Ascomycetes, in the form of the genus Ascobolus, came next, appearing from about day 12, peaking in numbers of apothecia at about day 21, and then tailing off.

Fruit bodies of basidiomycetes, in this case Coprinus stercoreus (= Coprinopsis stercorea), didn't begin to appear until day 24.

I also had one fruiting body which keyed out to Coprinus patouillardii (and probably equates to Coprinus cordisporus in the current Basidiomycota Checklist).

All fascinating stuff.

Ken

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

Just checked back and it was 1994 when I did my own experiment with sheep dung.

I kept a rough estimate of the numbers of visible Pilobolus fruiting bodies, taking a count every three days. On one sample the numbers shot up to about 3000 by day 6 and then gradually tailed off over the next two weeks. Presumably by this stage this fungus had used up all its available substrate, or perhaps it had been outcompeted by other groups of fungi.

Ascomycetes, in the form of the genus Ascobolus, came next, appearing from about day 12, peaking in numbers of apothecia at about day 21, and then tailing off.

Fruit bodies of basidiomycetes, in this case Coprinus stercoreus (= Coprinopsis stercorea), didn't begin to appear until day 24.

I also had one fruiting body which keyed out to Coprinus patouillardii (and probably equates to Coprinus cordisporus in the current Basidiomycota Checklist).

All fascinating stuff.

Ken

Fascinating stuff indeed Ken.
John

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

Just checked back and it was 1994 when I did my own experiment with sheep dung.

I kept a rough estimate of the numbers of visible Pilobolus fruiting bodies, taking a count every three days. On one sample the numbers shot up to about 3000 by day 6 and then gradually tailed off over the next two weeks. Presumably by this stage this fungus had used up all its available substrate, or perhaps it had been outcompeted by other groups of fungi.

Ascomycetes, in the form of the genus Ascobolus, came next, appearing from about day 12, peaking in numbers of apothecia at about day 21, and then tailing off.

Fruit bodies of basidiomycetes, in this case Coprinus stercoreus (= Coprinopsis stercorea), didn't begin to appear until day 24.

I also had one fruiting body which keyed out to Coprinus patouillardii (and probably equates to Coprinus cordisporus in the current Basidiomycota Checklist).

All fascinating stuff.

Ken

Thanks very much for your interest and many useful comments.

This investigation has been a bit rough and ready (like my spelling) but hopefully may inspire a few others and will be a good prequal to the future.

The different sorts of dung are certainly producing different (some very little so far) fruit bodies, so the next few weeks should continue to produce nice suprises.

I now know where i could get sheep dung and did wonder about that from geese. I will continue with what i have for a few weeks by which time some fungi in the field should be available.

I feel getting a grasp of dung fungi at genus level is a step forward, more precise ID isn't going to be easy, what literature is available is limited and i find that trawling the net as well produces various figures for number of species for example Pilobolus, but will attempt fine detail when time allows, it's all good practice with the microscope.

Maybe next winter will see a larger version of the experiment, i can see it would be good to get into platting out some onto agar and maybe micrographs of mycelia etc.

Nothing fresh to report this evening, the old cow dung still looks like it has achne with number of Saccobolus on it, most of the Pilobolus have fired their sporangia while it was sunny (logical), and two more beetles from the fresh cow dung which have been returned to the great outdoors.

Cheers J.P.

[Leif]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

Here is how I would describe the cap of your specimen:

- shape conical
- colour rusty-brown, turning paler on drying (hygrophanous)
- translucently striate when moist ie you can see the gills through the cap as darker lines
- overall stature mycenoid (ie looks like a typical Mycena in stature but in this case the overall colours and habitat rule out the genus Mycena itself)

Together these characters would rule out any of the suggestions above. I don't think it is a Panaeolus or a Psilocybe and it is definitely not an Amanita. We don't have the spore colour, but I think it would probably have been ochre to rusty brown.

The characters point to the genus Conocybe, some species of which are saprotrophic on dung (ie feed by breaking down dung).

This genus contains a lot of species that are superficially similar and you can't really narrow the options down any further without microscopy.

Ken

I used to see that fungus, or a closely related one, all the time in the New Forest. Quite common on horse poop. I got as far as Conocybe. The ones I saw were quite tall (~4") with a distinctive equal stem.

[Leif]

Am I the only one here who does not go to sleep with boxes of assorted animal poo on the bedside table? Bunny currants, pony buns, cow pats, the names are so inventive.

An interesting thread though. The idea of cultivating animal poo to encourage fungi to fruit is interesting. I wonder if it is possible to manage an area of wood land or pasture in order to increase the yield of certain fungi? And whether the effort is worth it on a cost benefit basis. Clearly it is possible to innoculate logs, and them ensure that they have moisture to fruit.

[monkey]

Thank you everyone for so much information on my unidentified fungi (see pic further back) I have been amazed at how complex fungi are - its interesting.

I have sort of named my fungi now so that I could upload the photo onto the main Gallery - I hope they allow it on - but if you decide on its identify definately please let me know.

I have looked at a search of Conocybe and they all appear to have long stems this one was so short you could hardly see it so I am abit confused but I would not have had a clue where to start identifying without all your expert knowledge so thanx again

linda

[Morchella]

I think if I went to bed with a collection like that on my bedside table I'd be served divorce papers in the morning!

Thanks for the photos - so we don't have to

[Meta menardi]

Originally Posted by Leif

Am I the only one here who does not go to sleep with boxes of assorted animal poo on the bedside table? Bunny currants, pony buns, cow pats, the names are so inventive.

An interesting thread though. The idea of cultivating animal poo to encourage fungi to fruit is interesting. I wonder if it is possible to manage an area of wood land or pasture in order to increase the yield of certain fungi? And whether the effort is worth it on a cost benefit basis. Clearly it is possible to innoculate logs, and them ensure that they have moisture to fruit.

Mmmm! Pony buns....

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by Leif

Am I the only one here who does not go to sleep with boxes of assorted animal poo on the bedside table? Bunny currants, pony buns, cow pats, the names are so inventive.

An interesting thread though. The idea of cultivating animal poo to encourage fungi to fruit is interesting. I wonder if it is possible to manage an area of wood land or pasture in order to increase the yield of certain fungi? And whether the effort is worth it on a cost benefit basis. Clearly it is possible to innoculate logs, and them ensure that they have moisture to fruit.

That's an excellent question, and finding out which variables you need to address to increase the yeild of a given fungi would no doubt be a suprising journey.

Temperature is one variable, and i have just been reading a reprinted (1930,s article) which claims that in the lab Ascobolus won't germinate unless they are heated to 50C for a few minutes, 8 hours later they have started growth.

http://www.jgp.org/cgi/reprint/19/1/45.pdf

This sounds remarkable, i can't image they reach that temperature in the hosts stomach, nor can i imagine the dung rising to that temperature after it is deposited (or am i wrong). So what sets them off in nature? (compost heaps to raise to such temperatures).

Oh and do think of a twee name for your chosen medium, its fun:>))))

Cheers J.P.