Herbivore dung - Have a dung day!

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

The job's already been done, in any case. Jack Marriott produced one for the BMS back in 1994.

You can buy a copy quite cheaply from the BMS:

http://www.britmycolsoc.org.uk/files/WEB_BMS-guides.pdf

It's the green booklet in the bottom left of the photo below.



It's a pity this one has not yet been put into a pdf available for download like the equivalent booklet on recording fungi.

Ken

£2.00 ... that's almost a full pint Now about this pdf

The WAB version ... 2008 ish will be far better and possibly free ... Now let me think ... 17000 members at £5 each ....

[flaxton]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

£2.00 ... that's almost a full pint Now about this pdf

The WAB version ... 2008 ish will be far better and possibly free ... Now let me think ... 17000 members at £5 each ....

Do you need a proof reader at a very reasonable price I may need to haggle with Ken over that one.

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by flaxton

Do you need a proof reader at a very reasonable price I may need to haggle with Ken over that one.

No haggling necessary. I'll pull out of the deal and you can set your price accordingly.

Ken

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

As soon as I find my torch I'm off

Although reading your second paragraph of the thread it's slightly put me off my supper

Hope you didn't drop your torch in anything resembling mire:>)))

My fresh cowdung has been a contiual problem with insects/larvae, tonight i notices critters on inside of lid so as so often took it outside before lifting the lid (which is left loose) and away went a cloud (small) of flies, i feel this is why it has produced very little in the way of fungi.

The problem is how to deal with the problem, chemicals sound dodgy as how would they affect the fungal spores/mycelium, at the risk of affecting your supper (appologies) i did wonder about microwaves.

Cheers J.P.

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

The problem is how to deal with the problem, chemicals sound dodgy as how would they affect the fungal spores/mycelium, at the risk of affecting your supper (appologies) i did wonder about microwaves.

Cheers J.P.

I have to confess when I did my study I used some nasty toxic insect spray on my samples.

I hadn't thought about it beforehand, but after some large beetles emerged, making a terrible mess of the samples, I decided on chemical warfare. I did give the beetles their freedom first.

Are you sure microwaves wouldn't frazzle the fungi as well?

Ken

[FungiJohn]

I've decided to visit my 'hairy' cattle at the weekend when the promise of heavy rain may put off other visitors. I'll also take a lab coat with me just in case I have to go under cover

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

I have to confess when I did my study I used some nasty toxic insect spray on my samples.

I hadn't thought about it beforehand, but after some large beetles emerged, making a terrible mess of the samples, I decided on chemical warfare. I did give the beetles their freedom first.

Are you sure microwaves wouldn't frazzle the fungi as well?

Ken

Excellent comments, any advice on which chemicals would be welcome, did it just kill critters as they emerged (assuming surface application) or do you feel it soaked into the substrate and stopped any internal activity.

I wondered about microwaves being used on substrate straight after collection, with the idea fly eggs/larvae have a high moisture content compared with fungal spores so maybe a mild microwaving would not inhibit spore germination. (oh i feel i know so little sometimes).

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

I've decided to visit my 'hairy' cattle at the weekend when the promise of heavy rain may put off other visitors. I'll also take a lab coat with me just in case I have to go under cover

You could consider the alternative and wear a bright yellow high vis coat, then people will think you are on official bussines.

Cheers J.P.

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

any advice on which chemicals would be welcome

It was just an insect spray I picked up from a DIY store. But it was 14 years ago, and when I went back to buy some more a couple of years later I was told it was no longer available because some chemical in it had been banned for public sale, or so the story went. Probably highly toxic and carcinogenic, but then so are many of the reagents we use as fungal stains.

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

did it just kill critters as they emerged (assuming surface application) or do you feel it soaked into the substrate and stopped any internal activity.

I just gave everything a good spray and no animal life emerged again.

Not very organic though.

Ken

[CapAndBracket]

That's in line with what i have heard from gardeners (aphid spray etc), the public ain't allowed chemicals that work.

That leaves microwave (worth and experiment) for dung lumps oh naturelle.

For platting out trials, then i think filtering may be a way of removing at least large insect eggs/larvae that may be present, but allow fungal spores through, fine mesh stocking material maybe (some one is bound to suggest an old sock).

Cheers J.P.

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

You could consider the alternative and wear a bright yellow high vis coat, then people will think you are on official bussines.

Cheers J.P.

Good idea J.P. I knew my fire marshal tabard would come in handy one day

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

Good idea J.P. I knew my fire marshal tabard would come in handy one day

Well that sounds impressive enough to get you into any bullring:>))



Not much to report today, the above is probably a gymnothecia but i speak with caution, you may notice a dark spot in amongst the white fibres, this looked like the sporangia of pilobolus ! and maybe other species were caught up in the fibres so under the microscope was quite a jumble of spores. The bunny currants are crowded with fungi (the myxomycete has moved off onto the paper) so i can see a learning curve this winter on plating out for more space.

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

Three weeks have passed, as per photo, the bunny currants look like they are wrapped in a cobweb of aerial hypha/mycelia speckled with white dots of sporangia.
The (what appeared to be fresh) deer pellets and old cow dung have produced very few Pilobolus.sp, and a constant supply of Ascomycetes.

The fresh cow dung, beattles and flies.

So not quite the fungal succession expected, but that's science and who knows what will pop up tommorow.

Don't expect to find much dung fungi in the wild over the weekend, we've had enough rain to dissolve the substrate.

Cheers J.P.

[nightshade]

I have just kept quiet and read,just one thing,what is quote;
"often possible to see brownian motion acting on the spores so re-living a bit of history."
The brownian motion it sounds as if it has a definite bowel connection
I was looking at a childrens gadget basically a webcam attached to a microscope that plugs into the computer via a USB, has anyone any info?
I have learned a lot from this thread thankyou,I often examined dung for insects/bat food but never really appreciated the rest of the breakdown mechanism

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by nightshade

I have just kept quiet and read,just one thing,what is quote;
"often possible to see brownian motion acting on the spores so re-living a bit of history."

Brownian motion is "the erratic motion, visible through a microscope, of small grains suspended in a fluid. The motion results from collisions between the grains and atoms or molecules in the fluid."

"Named for Robert Brown, who was investigating the fertilization process of flowers in 1827 when he noticed a "rapid oscillatory motion" of microscopic particles within pollen grains suspended in water. He later discovered that similar motions could be seen in smoke or dust particles suspended in air and other fluids."

At the magnifications used with a compound microscope you can actually see spores and other small particles being vibrated around by the kinetic motion of the molecules in the surrounding medium.

Depending on what you are looking at and where it has come from, at high power you can also occasionally catch glimpses of small unicellular organisms flicking themselves around with their flagella or even bacteria scooting around.

Ken

[CapAndBracket]

Thanks for the interest and some good comments.
Assume you have googled brownian motion

The idea of a cam fitted straight to microscope is great, i keep looking for a plug on camera so i can see on screen what the camera is seeing and adjust focus to suit. i know little of photography and have problems with focus, luckily what i am doing seems to work quite well on high magnifycation, but at lower magnifycation the camera doesn't seem to be focusing at the same distance as my old eyes.

There are some great photo's being put on this site and i am happy to enjoy those peoples work, if i can produce something useful and interesting in the microscope area that will be a great learning aid to me, with time and equipment/skill maybe some more on fungal growth etc.

A web cam sounds like it could be just the ticket, screen capture for stills i have the software to cope with, so yes if you find one let me know.
Brunel microscopes do cameras that fit onto scopes and plug into a tv for people who wish to watch critters in action, not cheap and problably wouldn't quite suit my needs.

It sounds like insects are part of your interest, maybe a dung diary in the insect forum would be a good idea and we maybe cross posting some finds.
This subject is going to get really big, help i need more time

Cheers J.P.

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by nightshade

I was looking at a childrens gadget basically a webcam attached to a microscope that plugs into the computer via a USB, has anyone any info?

There are a couple of options that I am aware of. I'll mention one here and the other in a separate post.

I bought a children's Intelplay QX3 microscope second hand for about £20 on Ebay a few years ago to use with some software for measuring spores. It was interesting to play with, but a bit of a faff to correct for the distortion on the computer screen to allow accurate measurements. However, the webcam itself seems to work fine and can give some interesting images if you play around with it. You don't always have the resolution on screen to see some of the fine detail you need for identifying mushrooms to species and obviously it only works if you already have a compound microscope.

For interest, here's the link to the website about the software and how it works.

Richard Shotbolt - Shop

The software would probably work better with the replacement model, the QX5, which you can buy relatively inexpensively (compared with the cost of a compound microscope) on ebay.

Ken

PS Here's some information from Wikipedia on the microscopes themselves:

"The QX3TM Computer Microscope was a product in the Intel Play product line and was continued in the Digital Blue product line. The upgraded QX5 model is available."

"The QX3 is a small electronic microscope which can connect to a computer via a USB connection. It has magnification levels of 10x, 60x, and 200x. The microscope comes with software which allows a computer to access the microscope and use it to either take pictures or record movie. The microscope also has two lights on it which aid in illuminating the specimen. The specimen can be lit either from underneeth or from above. The tray which holds the specimen can be adjusted in heights to focus the microscope."

"The QX5™ Computer Microscope is a Digital Blue product and upgraded the QX3 with multiple improvements, especially a 640x480 image capture device and brighter light source"

[Fungus Ken]

The other option, for which you don't need an existing microscope to use it with, is the Bresser Biolux. If you google this you will find lots of information, because Lidl seem to do a special offer on them every year around Christmas/New Year.

Here's a review from Ben Goldacre's Bad Science website, in this case actually extolling the virtues of the microscope:

"I went into Lidl (be calm, people) a week ago and bought a Bresser Biolux microscope for about £40. I expected a oeoeoeoe tin thing. That's not what I got.

This is an extraordinary piece of kit, and although it's not as well-polished as a £1,000 pro scope it's orders of magnitude nicer that the crappy 300x devices that were around when I was a kid. The image is crystal clear from its 20x to the max 1280x. It has LED illumination from below and from the side, both dimmable. It comes with 3 objectives, 2 eyepieces and a Barlow. The slide stage has X and Y controls to move the subject. It's housed in a wooden box complete with slides, cover slips and a kit of well-made tools for preparation - including a little microtome!

And the punchline: it has a USB CAMERA! This allows clear images at CIF resolution to be captured straight to a PC, and you can even make... movies!"

I haven't tried it myself, but I have heard positive reviews from a friend in the North West Fungus Group who bought one in Lidl earlier this year. A bargain for those who want to try out their hand at microscopy but don't want to plunge in just yet with the full costs of a compound microscope.

You can buy them online eg on Ebay, but you might want to wait until Lidl do their next offer, although you might have to wait a while before it's back in store.

Try googling "Lidl + Bresser Biolux" and read some of the articles that come up.

Ken

[nightshade]

Wow that sounds good, well good enough for me

[CapAndBracket]

Many thanks ken for opening your fountain of knowledge once again, i was aware of both the options you mention, the QX seemed low on image quality, the lidle one i thought of buying just for the plug on image capture part but didn't know if it would fit my scope. (which is all i think i want, maybe not technicaly possible).

I believe olympus brought out a quality! usb scope in america a couple of years ago but the price wasnt' worth the risk and i don't think it was a success (seem to remember it went up to 600X).

Now as so often happens that has given me an idea, there are cheap web cams about (something i haven't used) but maybe one of these could be adapted (with some sticky back plastic) to do the job.

Cheers J.P.

[nightshade]

Ta-rah! digital cameras for microscopes Cameras

[CapAndBracket]

Oh i better start a wish list.

Cheers J.P.