Herbivore dung - Have a dung day!

[CapAndBracket]

This morning Ascobolus.sp have appeared on deer pellets, notice Pilobolus.sp can be seen around the perimiter of the deer pellet, so it would appear these two can fruit together (not overly atagonistic).

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

400X

What is quite amazing with some of these dung species, is that despite their diminutive size, they have rather large Asci and spores.
The image above though only 400X magnifycation shows them clearly, the squash was done with no stain, (just a drop of water) and the spores are hyaline (colourless), this indicates they are not mature, from the net they should be somewhat purple at maturity so will try some more later in the week. (could be a colourfull Easter).

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

1000X

This evening, spores from pilobolus key out to Pilobolus crystallinus.
Richardson and watling describe as pale yellow, 8-10x5-6 mu.
Zygomycetes.org list 3 variants.

No stain used, scale bar is home brewed but should be within 0.05% correct !, will get hold of a stage micrometer sometime and check.

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

1000X

Spores of Ascobolus albidus, from Richardson and Watling,
Apothecia up to 1mm diameter, colourless,
Spores 20-35X11-14 mu,
epispore cracks distant, irregualar, often anastomosing.

A remarkable (maybe not) find is that i have Ascobolus
fruit bodies growing directly on the damp paper hand towel
used to line the plastic box the deer pellets are in, this may
be interesting to investigate next winter, liguidised dung
poured on paper towel would greatly increase surface area,
i now wonder if in nature mycelia spread out from dung,
(seems logical for space if nothing else) so fruit bodies we
find near dung may well have germinated within it.

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

Still not certain of ID for these growing on cow dung, from Richardson and Watling the spore size makes Peziza fimeti the most likely candidate.

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

400X

Cheilymenia stercorea, rooted hairs, these are protruding from the outer surface of the opothecium (cup/dish) at an accute angle uppwards to above the rim, they are described as hairs but look more like spines to me and i assume play a defensive role for the fruit body, (sure would put of a slug from chewing).

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

400X

Cheilymenia stercorea, stellate hairs, directly below the pointer is one of these looking like a round cell with four spines around it, these are also found on the outer surface of this species and ID it, all the other cheilymenia have rooted hairs but not stellate (Richardson and Watling).

These images done with a gentle squash and no stain to try and capture features in situ, the rooted hairs can be seen around the stellate one still embeded in the parent material.

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

100X

Thelebolus stercoreus, (note scale is correct).

This species is one of those that breaks the normal asci rule, in that it has few 1-3 but each contains 100+ spores. (expect multiples of 8).

Meiosis normaly leads to 4 gametes (seeds for simplicity), a few ascomycetes have 4 spores, most ascomycetes seem to follow meiosis with an extra mitosis (duplication for simplicity) hence 8 spores, a few have multiples of 8 (16,32,64 etc) this suggest a genetic slip which codes for the whole system to be repeated.

Cheers J.P.

[Fungus Ken]

You'll be able to write a thesis on this by the time you've finished.

Ken

[CapAndBracket]

http://www.cbs.knaw.nl/simonline/sim...%20et%20al.pdf

Above is a link to a paper about Thelebolus evolution and taxonamy.

We must marvel at nuturalists from the past, with the simple tools available they studied morphology in detail and worked out species position in the tree of life.

It appears so far modern techniques support their findings, any thelebolus with more than 8 spores per asci (apparently they can have up to 2000), and from temperate environment, is classed as Thelebolus stercorea , this sounds hightly variable but DNA analysis shows it to be so.

I am wondering if (next winter) adding a terminology glossary to one of the sticky guides would be a good idea.

Cheers J.P.

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

We must marvel at nuturalists from the past, with the simple tools available they studied morphology in detail and worked out species position in the tree of life.

Yes, they must have had a fair eye for detail. But many of them also had plenty of time because they didn't have to do other work for a living... or do the housework... or the shopping... or the DIY...

... sounds like an ideal life to me.

I think a WAB fungi glossary would be an excellent online resource if someone has the time to put it together.

Ken

[CapAndBracket]

400X

Do these spores break the 8 per ascus rule.

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

1000X

Sporormiella intermedia, spores, 8 per aci, but each spore consists of 4 cells, many large fungi have spores that are smaller than each of the cells in these spores, yet these came from a fruit body that was less than 1/4 mm diameter.

Cheers J.P.

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

I think a WAB fungi glossary would be an excellent online resource if someone has the time to put it together.

Ken

How's the leg Ken? are you busy

I'm sure a glossary will come soon. I'm currently writing a simple fungi microscopy guide. Hopefully this won't take as long as the photography guide did

This thread itself would make a very good article. J.P's work is excellent

John

[NickCantle]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

This thread itself would make a very good article. J.P's work is excellent

Agreed 100%

[CapAndBracket]

You guys are being far to kind, i still feel like it's amateur ramblings, but hope of some interest to others.

The microscopy is quite a learning curve for me, you may have noticed bubbles in some of the photo's and thought poor technique, but i have been experimenting as mentioned just with a drop of water (in an atempt for natural colour) and initially just resting the cover slip on the specimen (hence the bubbles) as this is often ample to force some asci out for a group photo, further squashing can then take place if need be as in the pics of cheilymenia spines (still only gentle pressure for those), i have so much to learn but it is fun, as an aside by doing this it is often possible to see brownian motion acting on the spores so re-living a bit of history.

Yesterday's posts were the result of a failure in that i had been searching the old cow dung (magnifying glass and pin) for a Podospora.sp, one of these has quite a history as a model species in genetics Podospora anserina (just type the name into google to get the french site, full DNA download available, interesting facts section), its being studied as it shows a distinct form of scenesense (cell death related to age), and people have run molecular clocks based on the genome structure to estimate the evolutionary date for these species appearing, and doubtless others have a similar time scale to their history.

Its quite a thought to think of a coprinus and Cheilymenia enjoying the sunshine from atop a pile of dinosaur dung.

It seems many dinosaurs were herbivores and likely had a digestive system similar to their modern day couterparts, but curiously the birds are all that is left of dinosaurs, yet modern day science knows of only one herbivorous bird that has a digestive system that includes a large stomach filled with anaerobic bacteria which breakdown the complex plant material!

Cheers J.P.

[FungiJohn]

Not at all J.P. When I first started this thread it had very little feedback … about 60 or so views and one reply. I assumed everyone thought I was mad … I can live with that The current 1662 views show the level of interest in this odd but important fungi habitat.

Don’t worry about bubbles; I usually get more in my permanent slides than those using the quick ‘mush in water’ method!

It’s quite obvious you are enjoying this and so are we. To give you an idea how far you are in front of me, look at this picture which I took today in an attempt to collect some ‘hairy cattle’ dung. Each time I visited the enclosure there were people there and I chickened out of trying to collect some dung. I think the expression on his face speaks volumes. I will return though … probably about 5am in the morning



So, Enjoy and keep us up to date, it’s fascinating

John

[CapAndBracket]

Thank's for your comments, and i will think of you in the morning sat at home with your trophy from a dawn raid.

Still aim to repeat this next winter a bit better organised, i have now 5 petri dishes with liquidised cow dung soaked paper towel in them to see if it works, if it does then growing fungi on nutrient rich paper would be so convenient to cut out sections and place on a glass slide.

Cheers J.P.

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

Thank's for your comments, and i will think of you in the morning sat at home with your trophy from a dawn raid.

Still aim to repeat this next winter a bit better organised, i have now 5 petri dishes with liquidised cow dung soaked paper towel in them to see if it works, if it does then growing fungi on nutrient rich paper would be so convenient to cut out sections and place on a glass slide.

Cheers J.P.

As soon as I find my torch I'm off

Although reading your second paragraph of the thread it's slightly put me off my supper

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

How's the leg Ken? are you busy

I'm sure a glossary will come soon.

Leg's still in a cast but, as commented upon elsewhere by Juliejam, I am looking forward to having it off two weeks on Friday. In the meantime, now that I am more mobile around the house, my wife has found plenty to keep me busy... so no time for glossaries I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

I'm currently writing a simple fungi microscopy guide. Hopefully this won't take as long as the photography guide did

You're a dedicated man. I look forward to reading this.

Ken

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

You're a dedicated man. I look forward to reading this.

Ken

I had to decide which came first ... Paint our bathroom and kitchen or write something. Given that my daughter is always in the shower and my son is always in the fridge ... It was easy

You will indeed Ken ... I was going to ask you to proof read it for me first

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

I had to decide which came first ... Paint our bathroom and kitchen or write something.

I'm coming under increasing pressure to redecorate our lounge once my leg is mended. Julie says the incentive is to get it all over and done with before fungi season starts in earnest so that I don't lose precious foraying time...

... but I prefer the "let's not bother, it looks fine to me" approach, which works just as well in terms of time for foraying.

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

You will indeed Ken ... I was going to ask you to proof read it for me first

I can cope with proof reading. It's the staring at a blank bit of paper and hoping for inspiration that I find a bind.

Ken

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

I can cope with proof reading. It's the staring at a blank bit of paper and hoping for inspiration that I find a bind.

Ken