Herbivore dung - Have a dung day!

[Leif]

Am I the only one here who does not go to sleep with boxes of assorted animal poo on the bedside table? Bunny currants, pony buns, cow pats, the names are so inventive.

An interesting thread though. The idea of cultivating animal poo to encourage fungi to fruit is interesting. I wonder if it is possible to manage an area of wood land or pasture in order to increase the yield of certain fungi? And whether the effort is worth it on a cost benefit basis. Clearly it is possible to innoculate logs, and them ensure that they have moisture to fruit.

[monkey]

Thank you everyone for so much information on my unidentified fungi (see pic further back) I have been amazed at how complex fungi are - its interesting.

I have sort of named my fungi now so that I could upload the photo onto the main gallery - I hope they allow it on - but if you decide on its identify definately please let me know.

I have looked at a search of Conocybe and they all appear to have long stems this one was so short you could hardly see it so I am abit confused but I would not have had a clue where to start identifying without all your expert knowledge so thanx again

linda

[Morchella]

I think if I went to bed with a collection like that on my bedside table I'd be served divorce papers in the morning!

Thanks for the photos - so we don't have to

[Meta menardi]

Originally Posted by Leif

Am I the only one here who does not go to sleep with boxes of assorted animal poo on the bedside table? Bunny currants, pony buns, cow pats, the names are so inventive.

An interesting thread though. The idea of cultivating animal poo to encourage fungi to fruit is interesting. I wonder if it is possible to manage an area of wood land or pasture in order to increase the yield of certain fungi? And whether the effort is worth it on a cost benefit basis. Clearly it is possible to innoculate logs, and them ensure that they have moisture to fruit.

Mmmm! Pony buns....

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by Leif

Am I the only one here who does not go to sleep with boxes of assorted animal poo on the bedside table? Bunny currants, pony buns, cow pats, the names are so inventive.

An interesting thread though. The idea of cultivating animal poo to encourage fungi to fruit is interesting. I wonder if it is possible to manage an area of wood land or pasture in order to increase the yield of certain fungi? And whether the effort is worth it on a cost benefit basis. Clearly it is possible to innoculate logs, and them ensure that they have moisture to fruit.

That's an excellent question, and finding out which variables you need to address to increase the yeild of a given fungi would no doubt be a suprising journey.

Temperature is one variable, and i have just been reading a reprinted (1930,s article) which claims that in the lab Ascobolus won't germinate unless they are heated to 50C for a few minutes, 8 hours later they have started growth.

http://www.jgp.org/cgi/reprint/19/1/45.pdf

This sounds remarkable, i can't image they reach that temperature in the hosts stomach, nor can i imagine the dung rising to that temperature after it is deposited (or am i wrong). So what sets them off in nature? (compost heaps to raise to such temperatures).

Oh and do think of a twee name for your chosen medium, its fun:>))))

Cheers J.P.

[flaxton]

JP
Try http://www.britmycolsoc.org.uk/files/WEB_Misc_Publ.pdf on this page you will find Richardson & Watling (1997) Keys to Fungi on Dung, new edn ISBN 0 9527704 23
This may help in sorting your finds.

Mal

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

I think you would need high speed recording equipment to capture the actual moment.



I didn't realise sheep were so vindictive. I think I'll take your advice and keep the door shut.

Ken

Its not sheep you need to worry about................
Seriously my mate - I hope you are mending nicely

Pauline

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by monkey

if you decide on its identify definately please let me know.

Unfortunately, I think we have taken it as far as is possible from a photo.

Originally Posted by monkey

I have looked at a search of Conocybe and they all appear to have long stems this one was so short you could hardly see it so I am abit confused

You can't always tell how long the stem of a mushroom is without actually carefully picking it. Often the stem can be much longer than the visible part because it is hidden or buried in the substrate. That said, some species do typically have a short stem in comparison with the size of the cap.

You also need to remember that the photos in any field guide or on the web will only show a proportion of the possible number of species, and a very small proportion for a genus of little brown jobs like Conocybe, which not many field mycologists are keen to study, photograph and name accurately.

In fact with Conocybe, it used to be nice and easy because generally people lumped the majority of finds into just a couple of species - Conocybe tenera and Conocybe subovalis. Many of the early records are actually therefore wrong because a quick count on the Basidiomycota Checklist shows there are upwards of 60 species on the British list, many of which look remarkably similar to the pictures in the books of Conocybe tenera.

Ken

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by PMG

Seriously my mate - I hope you are mending nicely

Pauline

Still over 4 weeks to go with the cast on my leg.

Once I can ditch the crutches things will be a lot easier.

Ken

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by flaxton

JP
Try http://www.britmycolsoc.org.uk/files/WEB_Misc_Publ.pdf on this page you will find Richardson & Watling (1997) Keys to Fungi on Dung, new edn ISBN 0 9527704 23
This may help in sorting your finds.

Mal

I used an earlier edition in my own study but it didn't really help in getting down to species.

I'm waiting for the day you can scan these little jobs into your computer with a hand-held scanner and then a software package does all the hard work of identifying them for you...

... but I may have a long wait.

Ken

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by Leif

I wonder if it is possible to manage an area of wood land or pasture in order to increase the yield of certain fungi?

I think the answer is probably that no-one really knows, particularly with mycorrhizal species. I've not seen any literature which gives detailed advice on what to do to increase the yield - unless of course you are talking about wood rotting species, when leaving lots of dead wood around is obviously beneficial.

There are publications which suggest what not to do to avoid reducing the yield, particularly with high profile groups like waxcaps. Here the advice is all about not changing the management too much on sites that are already productive eg keep the grass grazed but not too short to avoid poaching, don't add artificial fertiliser, don't plough it up (obviously) etc.

I guess if anyone knows how to increase the productivity of their local patch of edibles they are probably keeping it to themselves.

Ken

[flaxton]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

I used an earlier edition in my own study but it didn't really help in getting down to species.

I'm waiting for the day you can scan these little jobs into your computer with a hand-held scanner and then a software package does all the hard work of identifying them for you...

... but I may have a long wait.

Ken

They are already able to take DNA from a soil sample and say this soil has "Boletus edulis Boletus impolitus and a Boletus that has never been found yet" in the it
so the DNA probe may not be that far away.
Keep an eye on EBAY

Mal

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

I'm waiting for the day you can scan these little jobs into your computer with a hand-held scanner and then a software package does all the hard work of identifying them for you...

... but I may have a long wait.

Ken

Considering what some people get up to with photocopiers and the like ... I don't think we have too long to wait

As for software .. Surely you must have a copy of scan poo plus! The Pro version incorporates OCR which narrows results down to genus level

John

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by flaxton

... so the DNA probe may not be that far away.
Keep an eye on EBAY

Mal

Bring it on, I say.

Ken

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

Surely you must have a copy of scan poo plus!

Unfortunately I'm not sure the plumbing on my laptop is up to it. I wouldn't want to clog up my pipes, or whatever it is these computers have under the dashboard. (Forgive me if my IT jargon is getting a bit too technical here.)

Ken

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

Unfortunately I'm not sure the plumbing on my laptop is up to it. I wouldn't want to clog up my pipes, or whatever it is these computers have under the dashboard. (Forgive me if my IT jargon is getting a bit too technical here.)

Ken

I'd stick with fungi and looking down the microscope Ken .. Far easier

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by flaxton

JP
Try http://www.britmycolsoc.org.uk/files/WEB_Misc_Publ.pdf on this page you will find Richardson & Watling (1997) Keys to Fungi on Dung, new edn ISBN 0 9527704 23
This may help in sorting your finds.

Mal

Thanks for your interest, that is the one book i do have, and it is certainly useful. But as in a previous post the common problems remain, for that one the fruit body seemed to fit one description and the spores another, i'm being very cautious with this as i want to get things right and contamination is an issue, one squash i microscoped at the weekend seemed to have the (one) spore of a Sporormia.sp within it, a genus i haven't found on the dung yet!

Cheers J.P.

[Fungus Ken]

Another useful reference book for fungi on dung is Microfungi on Miscellaneous Substrates by Ellis and Ellis.

The original edition went out of print but there is an updated version which was published in 1998.

It also covers fungi on bryophytes, fungi on fungi, fungi on burnt ground, fungi on soil etc with keys, descriptions of the species and sketches.

It also seems to be still available eg from Summerfield Books:

Microfungi on Miscellaneous Substrates - An Identification Handbook 246pp, drawings, keys. Considers those fungi which occur on mosses, other fungi, soil, dung etc. Descriptions of about 730 species and over 500 original line illustrations. Corrected

I hadn't heard of Sporormia before your post but good old Ellis and Ellis includes Sporormia fimetaria... which grows on dung of herbivores.

Ken

[Fungus Ken]

PS Just realised I could have left out half of my post above because the web link to the Summerfield Books site says most of it.

Guess I should start previewing my posts.

Ken

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by Fungus Ken

Another useful reference book for fungi on dung is Microfungi on Miscellaneous Substrates by Ellis and Ellis.

The original edition went out of print but there is an updated version which was published in 1998.

It also covers fungi on bryophytes, fungi on fungi, fungi on burnt ground, fungi on soil etc with keys, descriptions of the species and sketches.

It also seems to be still available eg from Summerfield Books:

Microfungi on Miscellaneous Substrates - An Identification Handbook 246pp, drawings, keys. Considers those fungi which occur on mosses, other fungi, soil, dung etc. Descriptions of about 730 species and over 500 original line illustrations. Corrected

I hadn't heard of Sporormia before your post but good old Ellis and Ellis includes Sporormia fimetaria... which grows on dung of herbivores.

Ken

Well thank you very much Ken (you da man) that will certainly be ordered at the weekend (if not tommorow).

The recent Richardson and Watling list 6 species of Sporormia, the Ascospore i seemed to have in view matched S. ovina, (with the spore consisting of 4 cells) the S.fimetaria you mention is apparently 16-20 celled. They are certainly distinctive. (well until we find something similar).

Cheers J.P.

[CapAndBracket]

Originally Posted by flaxton

They are already able to take DNA from a soil sample and say this soil has "Boletus edulis Boletus impolitus and a Boletus that has never been found yet" in the it
so the DNA probe may not be that far away.
Keep an eye on EBAY

Mal

I certainly look forward to the DNA probe for the enthusiast, but i'm not sure it will make ID any easier (maybe more complex) first we have to decide from the several megabase's of nucleotides which section we are going to use as our template.
As you rightly point out already a teaspoon of soil will produce 100s of species, some new to science, we may have some suprises in the way species will be reclassified with the new evidence,
(convergent evolution can lead to species looking very similar even though distantly related because they have adjusted to fit the particular environment).
On the other hand what appears to be one species may contain two types that for instance use differnt enzymes to break down their chosen substrate,
do we see this as enough to denote seperate species.

Its going to be fun, maybe the next fungi encycopedia will have a section of DNA next to each species in the form of a barcode.

Cheers J.P.

[Fungus Ken]

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket