Herbivore dung - Have a dung day! - Page 15

mykonik · #**351** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FungiJohn

I wonder if Nick has or can suggest something on the microscopy side?

I started to write a basic introduction to fungi microscopy and staining techniques but got bogged down quite early with my own limited knowledge

John

Frankly John it's a rather too large a subject to go on WAB - you could wite a book about it !

Nick

CapAndBracket · #**352** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 08:03 PM

Thank's for the comments chaps, much appreciated, i will carry on nibbling away at the subject while waiting for FJ's book

Cheers J.P.

cybershot · #**353** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

Thank's for the comments chaps, much appreciated, i will carry on nibbling away at the subject while waiting for FJ's book

Cheers J.P.

There's a niche in the market JP - make a name for yourself*.
See you at Greenham/Bowdown on Sunday

David

P.S. *but make sure thicko's like me can understand it LOL

CapAndBracket · #**354** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 08:21 PM

Well you have a point, what still astounds me is the quality of work done by people over the last 300 years finding and describing so many species along with hand drawn images of their component parts, makes me feel not very clever

Cheers J.P.

CapAndBracket · #**355** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 08:24 PM

Picture a reed filled stream across a water meadow, there is a willow tree growing out of it that overhangs the fence and provides shade for the grazing cows on sunny days, under the willow the soil (peat over gravel) has lot's of dung trodden into it, what sort of fungi grow here!

Me thinks, curious a fibre cap.

X1000

The spores ain't spiny so that rules out some of the genre.

X1000

Basidia, four spored as evidenced by the prongs (forgoten technical name) on one centre of image.
I would like it to be Inocybe adaequata but the location is wrong!

Cheers J.P.

FungiJohn · #**356** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykonik

Frankly John it's a rather too large a subject to go on WAB - you could wite a book about it !

Nick

Thanks Nick. I thought as much

There does seem to be a serious gap in this area.

Well, there's only one thing to do ... I'll continue with the guide and hope it helps in the short term ... but don't hold your breath, the main season is almost upon us

John

cybershot · #**357** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

Picture a reed filled stream across a water meadow, there is a willow tree growing out of it that overhangs the fence and provides shade for the grazing cows on sunny days, under the willow the soil (peat over gravel) has lot's of dung trodden into it, what sort of fungi grow here!
Cheers J.P.

Is that a Hamlet moment, or a Constable painting?

CapAndBracket · #**358** (**permalink**) 22-08-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybershot

Is that a Hamlet moment, or a Constable painting?

ah, you caught my drift, just waiting for the chance to do
" I wandered lonely as a clouded agaric"

Still not sure about the fungi.

Cheers J.P.

CapAndBracket · #**359** (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 06:54 PM

Rather a lot of Coprinus.sp on one petri dish.

A lump of cow dung some time ago was sporting a growth of fungal mat which i never got close to and id of, now it is festooned with mycomycets.

This little group are still immature.

The main mass are looking more mature.

Cheers J.P.

mykonik · #**360** (**permalink**) 30-08-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

Picture a reed filled stream across a water meadow, there is a willow tree growing out of it that overhangs the fence and provides shade for the grazing cows on sunny days, under the willow the soil (peat over gravel) has lot's of dung trodden into it, what sort of fungi grow here!

Me thinks, curious a fibre cap.

X1000

The spores ain't spiny so that rules out some of the genre.

X1000

Basidia, four spored as evidenced by the prongs (forgoten technical name) on one centre of image.
I would like it to be Inocybe adaequata but the location is wrong!

Cheers J.P.

Hi JP - hope you are keeping well ?

Inocybe's are quite common in this habitat - and this is one of them, so you diagnosis was right.

But which one...............................????????

Nick

CapAndBracket · #**361** (**permalink**) 31-08-2008, 12:05 AM

Thank's matey for all the great help you are donating to WAB.

X20

The myxomycete looks (including spore size and ornamentation) to be
Physarum nutans, (sorry no english name (yet)

). Curiously Stephenson + Stempen don't mention it growing on dung, but as the cows chew through plenty of scrub i suspect quite a high wood content (if part digested) and anyway the myxoes would be after bacteria of which i imagine there is plenty

One thing becomeing aparent is a difference between species from dung on
the common compared with the water meadow, e.g. the water meadow cow
dung supports plenty of Coprinus niveus which i have yet to see on the
common.

Cheers J.P.

CapAndBracket · #**362** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 03:02 PM

Yesterdays foray included collecting a dung sample with large (turned out to be) Coprobia granulata on it).
Placing sample under dissection scope today revealed some round jelly like blobs (very small) with protruding puple ascus.

Removing fruit body with a pin and squashing revealed Ascobolus immersus.

X100

Even squashed the fruit body is barely over 1mm across. Yet at X100 the clavate (club shapped) asci are clearly visible, the spores start as hyaline (clear) and turn purple as they mature.

X1000

At X1000 the size of the spores (approx 60 x 35 um) is evident and quite remarkable for such a small fungi, when many very large fungi have spores around 10-12um, just shows the variation in routes taken by evolution.

Cheers J.P.

mykonik · #**363** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

Thank's matey for all the great help you are donating to WAB.

X20

The myxomycete looks (including spore size and ornamentation) to be
Physarum nutans, (sorry no english name (yet)

). Curiously Stephenson + Stempen don't mention it growing on dung, but as the cows chew through plenty of scrub i suspect quite a high wood content (if part digested) and anyway the myxoes would be after bacteria of which i imagine there is plenty

One thing becomeing aparent is a difference between species from dung on
the common compared with the water meadow, e.g. the water meadow cow
dung supports plenty of Coprinus niveus which i have yet to see on the
common.

Cheers J.P.

All I have to say is thank God no-ones managed to give the Physarum nutans an English Name as yet - one group that has, as yet, avoided the scrutiny of the 'Dumberdowners' - and of course, (revelation) one can still name it and know it quite happily WITHOUT a silly made up monicker !!!

But I expect 'they' are lurking, ready to pounce, somewhere along the line - then after that it's individual names for bacteria........!!!!!

Nick

CapAndBracket · #**364** (**permalink**) 01-09-2008, 09:03 PM

To my (possibly small) mind.
Carl linnaeus got famous for doing something sensible with the naming of species, So they could be recognised world wide by one and all nations, (those concerned about google hits may do well to ponder his intention).
Our freinds in China, uzbeckistan and Argentina know Ascobolus immersus. (the hairy curtain crust could be missinterpreted

Bacteria i believe come in so many different strains that linnaeus has been modified in that they are assingned 3 greek symbols followed by 3 numbers

(don't think this message system contains the symbols).

Cheers J.P.

CapAndBracket · #**365** (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 05:10 PM

X20

Posted this a while ago growing on bunny currants.

X40

They have now matured and started to crack open for spore release, the spores fit with with
Stephenson + Stempen description for Physarum cinereum but it's habbitat is dead leaves !

Cheers J.P.

CapAndBracket · #**366** (**permalink**) 03-09-2008, 05:07 PM

I'm just so pleased cybershot happened to be with me to take a decent photo of this, news from kew today it is Coprinus sterquilinus.
His photo is stored with specimen (suitably accredited) for future reference

Cheers J.P.

CapAndBracket · #**367** (**permalink**) 04-09-2008, 05:02 PM

Seems to be Conocybe subovalis on old cow dung.

X1000

Cheers J.P.

cybershot · #**368** (**permalink**) 05-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapAndBracket

I'm just so pleased cybershot happened to be with me to take a decent photo of this, news from kew today it is Coprinus sterquilinus.
His photo is stored with specimen (suitably accredited) for future reference

Cheers J.P.

Good teamwork mate

Cheers
David

CapAndBracket · #**369** (**permalink**) 19-09-2008, 07:29 PM

Well isn't life full of suprises, felt lucky Sunday when a fellow forayer
spotted a Coprinus sterquilinus on pony buns.

Then this morning on my way back from the woods i spotted something on
a pile of clutter collected by a bush wacking machine, this is a heap of grass,
gorse, bramble, scrub and no doubt plenty of dung.

11am.

2pm

5pm

these are closely related to Coprinus comatus (probably renamed).
One difference is the cap scales are smaller and white except for a little brown patch
in the middle (poor photography didn't catch those).

Also notice the position of the ring around the stem, most cap and stem fungi seem to
show the cap braking away from the stem due to expansion and leave a ring (remnant of
membrane covering gills during develpment) .
Then it appears the fungi continue to expand including all of the stem so the ring is around
two thirds up the stem at completion.
With these after braking away from the cap the ring is left on the stem but stem expansion
then seems to only happen above the ring level, the net affect is the distinquishing feature
of the ring being (unusually) at the base of the stem at completion.

Cheers J.P.

cybershot · #**370** (**permalink**) 19-09-2008, 08:13 PM

I've noticed this trait of a low positioned ring even on C. comatus JP (see recent upload in my gallery)

David

fairplay · #**371** (**permalink**) 19-09-2008, 11:14 PM

J.P.

Do you ever get up, say 5am in the morning, to hunt for Coprinus spp. ?

I ask because Derek Shafer, who specialises in this genus, takes his groups out very early because as your sequence of photo's shows, they can emerge, sporulate and shrivel up within hours - a lot never seen by the general public.

Neil.

CapAndBracket · #**372** (**permalink**) 20-09-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairplay

J.P.

Do you ever get up, say 5am in the morning, to hunt for Coprinus spp. ?

I ask because Derek Shafer, who specialises in this genus, takes his groups out very early because as your sequence of photo's shows, they can emerge, sporulate and shrivel up within hours - a lot never seen by the general public.

Neil.

Thank's for your interest, and sometimes i get out early for fungi (not just coprinus), glad you noticed what i hoped to illustrate that some fungi are so ephemeral and how many we miss is probably a large number.

I'm the first to admit my knowledge covers few species but i find myself drawn to understanding how fungi operate chemically and structurally. It's going to be a long road and first i have to get better at microscopy and understanding chemical reactions.

Todays find i feel very lucky about, the laugh is i wish to photograph fungal development and wishing to catch this species at an early stage i have a washing up bowl (which i've perforated for drainage) outside loaded with pony buns and have intermingled some spores from my first find, the idea i can look out and spot anything emerging. So far all i have noticed is one large (i assume bettle) larvae.

The description of C.comatus as cybershot mentions does include a ring that may slip down the stem, these as i mentioned are interesting in that the ring stays at the bottom, this indicate all stem expansion is above that level, at the moment i don't know of any other species that does that.

The information on this find (as before) has been passed on to others higher up the mycology world and i'm sure mr schaffer will know about it tommorow,
he did confirm the first find before it was sent to kew.

So there it is