Bernard Matthews Bird Flu link to Hungry

[nightshade]

The Government inspectors have decided that the farm where the
Turkeys were culled had imported materials from Hungry (from their
poultry industry) is it possible that now that wild birds could get it
Importing from countries that have had bird flu should surely be
banned or at the very least subjected to rigourous testing ABOVE
AND BEYOND the normal quality assurance tests
Meat products are being withdrawn from shops possibly imports from
Hungry

[Jon]

I am not hungry for food from Hungary any more! Jon

[mrs fish]

This has shown us what goes on behind the scenes in the poultry industry
I have heard the birds are even fed ground up parts and feathers of other birds

It's all about the money

The good thing to come out of this will be people won't be eating so much poultry so less birds will have to live the awful life in a factory farm.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by mrs fish

This has shown us what goes on behind the scenes in the poultry industry
I have heard the birds are even fed ground up parts and feathers of other birds

It's all about the money

The good thing to come out of this will be people won't be eating so much poultry so less birds will have to live the awful life in a factory farm.

Thing is not eating so much poultry doesn't support those who are producing poultry in a free range organic fashion. Hope those guys (and gals) don't suffer too much through this....

Just makes me look forward to the time when I have a big enough garden and enough time to keep my own chickens that can live happy chicken lives, doing chickeny things all day everyday and I can have guilt free eggs and maybe if I'm brave the occasional older but more flavoursome bird on the table............

[smartie]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

Thing is not eating so much poultry doesn't support those who are producing poultry in a free range organic fashion. Hope those guys (and gals) don't suffer too much through this....

Yes, it would be tragic if the effect of this is that the people who are trying to do it right, and produce tasty, healthy poultry that has had a good, if short, life, find themselves forced to bring their birds indoors or are pushed out of business altogether by the antics of the cheap food merchants. When will the British public wake up to the fact that there is a big difference between good food and cheap food?

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by smartie

Yes, it would be tragic if the effect of this is that the people who are trying to do it right, and produce tasty, healthy poultry that has had a good, if short, life, find themselves forced to bring their birds indoors or are pushed out of business altogether by the antics of the cheap food merchants. When will the British public wake up to the fact that there is a big difference between good food and cheap food?

Absolutely, I'd much rather buy an expensive chicken and make it stretch further into roast then perhaps stirfry/ casserole and soup for most of the week knowing it had a reasonable (like you said - if short) life.

[badgerwatcher]

Yet again, we are reminded that our illusion of meat being handled responsibly and carefully is misplaced. Did I hear correctly that much of the meat was even being stored outside, or did I imagine that bit? And surely feeding them waste products from others of their own kind was what created the Bovine spongiform encephalopothy prione in cattle? (Apologies for probable spelling errors!)
Another point in favour of organic, happy chickens is they taste much better! After a holiday in France, where the amazing flavour of soup I made from the bones of a chicken we'd bought reminded me of childhood flavours, I switched to organic.
And in a society that is prepared to pay £13.50 for an imported valentine's day rose, why do we object to paying more for food produced in more acceptable ways?

[Kayleigh]

I hope all the decent poultery producers sue Matthews for this irresonsible act. I am fuming at what he has done. He has put our hole wildlife in jeperdy. And may damage the decent free range farmers for years to come. I have always bought free range turkeys as I know they have had a decent life. They say there is contaminated food in the food chain. I have stopped buying chicken fron supermarkets as you cant trust where they come from and it looks like Tesco gets uncooked chicken from Matthews.

[nightshade]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

Absolutely, I'd much rather buy an expensive chicken and make it stretch further into roast then perhaps stirfry/ casserole and soup for most of the week knowing it had a reasonable (like you said - if short) life.

"and make it stretch further" is this a genetic modification thing?

I have always loved chickens from my childhood, that thing they do with
their beady eyes as they rangefind for a quick accurate peck at some
morsel (usually a grasshopper in the old days)
They are so endearingly stupid,I could watch them all day(and have)

[nightshade]

It would be interesting to find out just where our supermarket
poultry comes from China was mentioned for chicken ,any others?

[Gill Catton]

I think Thailand produces a lot of chicken in worse conditions than our battery farming, I think we get that only in cooked chicken products though. It's a sad truth but I think when the ban on battery farming in the UK finally comes in, many will just shift their demand to the east. Sadly the welfare and the food miles will be worse

[Garden Carpet]

I have several pieces of chicken and turkey in my freezer... I think i am going to bin them. Have slowly been going off them anyway... which is why they are in the freezer still. After reading all the above and other items i think i will be better off without them. Cant even feed them to the doggies.. one is allergic to it. I dont buy BM but if one does it no doubt others do too.
jaki

[Kayleigh]

Whats going to happen if all this contaminated meat is in landfill. I may be over reacting but its somthing to think about. What will happen if people who have eaten BMs product start to be ill because he has not come clean. Its been two weeks now and we are no closer to knowing the truth. Its only a matter of time before we know the full scale of this imbecels mistakes he should be deported to Hungary.

[Garden Carpet]

and buried up to his neck in processed turkey bits

[Re-search]

I am not in favour of blaming Bernard Matthews for an outbreak of bird flu in the UK or anywhere else.
Bird flu is a global problem and more likely to be linked to climate changes than not.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Re-search

I am not in favour of blaming Bernard Matthews for an outbreak of bird flu in the UK or anywhere else.
Bird flu is a global problem and more likely to be linked to climate changes than not.

How do you link it to climate change?

Plus currently it's only a problem along certain species migratory routes and irresponsible poultry trade routes

[Kayleigh]

As far as I know no wild bird has been found dead in the UK with bird flu. Recently. There has been no carcasses found to have bird flu. Apart from the one swept up in Scotland a while ago. Don't you think its a coincidence BM is importing dead carcasses from his factory in Hungary where bird flu is prevalent. No where else has bird flu been found in the UK in the wild bird population..
He also had an outbreak of H5N1 in his factory in the UK a few years back according to country file this morning. That was Hushed up. No dought he is trying the same now.

[nightshade]

The government will not ban turkey meat from Hungry I wonder why

[Re-search]

Linking bird flu to climate changes is easy in theory but difficult for me to prove.
If wild birds or poultry should be subjected to abnormally low air pressure they might suffer decompression sickness. This means that disolved nitrogen would be released into the blood and oxidation, a form of poisoning, would occur. The bird/s concerned would lose immunity to infection and suffer metabolic failure. One small bird could easily infect a flock and leave the owner suffering from false allegations.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Re-search

Linking bird flu to climate changes is easy in theory but difficult for me to prove.
If wild birds or poultry should be subjected to abnormally low air pressure they might suffer decompression sickness. This means that disolved nitrogen would be released into the blood and oxidation, a form of poisoning, would occur. The bird/s concerned would lose immunity to infection and suffer metabolic failure. One small bird could easily infect a flock and leave the owner suffering from false allegations.

Can't help but feel that any problems relating to the birds immune system is more likely to be associated with living in such overcrowded condition - presumably they are deep littered too so end up living on their own filth so that probably deosn't help much.

The point is with bird flu is that it is totally tracable - they can even identify strains particular to a small locality that's how they can work out where outbreaks are likely to be associated with. That's also how they discovered it was being spred by wild birds too because outbreaks of a very particular strain were occuring along the migration routes of particular types of birds around the time that the birds were moving.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by nightshade

The government will not ban turkey meat from Hungry I wonder why

Other countries have banned our meat. We haven't even got bird flu in the wild, only on BM's farm. When will we stick up for ourselves as a country and keep the political correctness where it belongs.
We don't want cheep imports of diseased meat and meat products.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Re-search

Linking bird flu to climate changes is easy in theory but difficult for me to prove.
If wild birds or poultry should be subjected to abnormally low air pressure they might suffer decompression sickness. This means that disolved nitrogen would be released into the blood and oxidation, a form of poisoning, would occur. The bird/s concerned would lose immunity to infection and suffer metabolic failure. One small bird could easily infect a flock and leave the owner suffering from false allegations.

I am not sure we can blame the global bird flu outbreak on anyone factor - bird flus of a variety of sorts are endemic in many countries , it is just that H5N1 is of concern because it is unusually virulent.

the outbreak in suffolk however is a different matter - bernard matthews claim that their sheds have top line biosecurity - meaning that it would not have been possible for a wild bird to enter (assuming BM arent lying about that as well) , also if it was vectored by a wild bird why have there been no other outbreaks anywhere else in the area - this pattern is not in line with the wild bird migratory spread of H5N1 which we saw last year.

your alternative explanation also falls down on one rather large point - there is no evidence that climate change is leading to significant reductions in air pressure , okay warm air has a lower pressure than cold air but not to the degree that would lead to birds suffering from decompression sickness.

and also decompression sickness leads to major and imediate cramps in the chest muscles which would leave a bird unable to fly any distance ( certainly not from Hungary to here ) this has been shown on large windfarms in the usa where birds have suffered from decompression sickness as a result of the partial vacum induced by the blades.

[ron1863]

I have never ate any of this man's products as he was shown to be feeding his turkeys steroids many years ago. His birds are also kept in battery hen like accommodation with no regard for their welfare. It doesn't surprise me, and he should be investigated and prosecuted.

"Bootiful my oooo" (Jim Royle quote)

[Re-search]

If the infection of Bernards turkeys had been a criminal offense then a detective from the Suffolk Constabulary would have been assigned the awesome task of bringing an offender to justice.
Let us imagine the outbreak to have been a criminal offense and a Suffolk detective trying to detect the definate source of the infection in order to secure a conviction. If I were the detective then I know where I would start but I am not able to imagine the Suffolk Constabulary knowing.
If the death of Bernards turkeys were to be regarded by the Suffolk Constabulary as a crimal offense then I can see no way that any man or woman could possibly be convicted.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Re-search

If the infection of Bernards turkeys had been a criminal offense then a detective from the Suffolk Constabulary would have been assigned the awesome task of bringing an offender to justice.
Let us imagine the outbreak to have been a criminal offense and a Suffolk detective trying to detect the definate source of the infection in order to secure a conviction. If I were the detective then I know where I would start but I am not able to imagine the Suffolk Constabulary knowing.
If the death of Bernards turkeys were to be regarded by the Suffolk Constabulary as a crimal offense then I can see no way that any man or woman could possibly be convicted.

You dont by any chance work for bernard matthews do you ? as you seem awfully keen to defend him / them

Suffolk constabluary would not need to "detect the source of infection" this has already been shown to be infected imports from hungary (the strain found in suffolk is identical to the hungarian one , and the fact that such imports took place is a matter of record.

Whether there is a criminal case to answer would depend on whether criminal negligence could be proven - I suspect it probably could , but that someone at the farm would be the fall guy rather than BM themselves. and in anycase the police have far better things to do

However I would expect BM to be investigated by EH/defra and by the WHO for non compliance with biosecurity guidelines , which could result in a big fine , and we could also see claims for damages from other farmers alledging that BM's negilgence had led to loss of earnings.