Bin bugging

[lewisa]

BBC NEWS | UK | Bugged rubbish bins 'will charge'

Personally, im all for this, providing (a) councils provide lockable bins and (b) the percentage of council tax currently charged for waste is removed from the bill.

Of course, (b) will not happen, so I'll be crusading against it.

Ive got no problem with paying for my un-recyclables to be removed on a metered basis, but I refuse to pay twice.

[Owl-Light]

Complicated issue. Saw in on the morning news myself. How do you get people to seriously think about the rubbish their habits produce? It's one way. But people, being people, it could lead to a real increase in fly tipping. Not sure - I need to go away and think on it somemore.

[henrya]

There is no way that using 'bugged bins' that councils could charge individual households for the amount of rubbish they throw away. Lockable bins wouldn't work - it would be too easy to lose the key, or get a copy of a master key so you could put your rubbish in anyone's bin. So, that means the bin men would have to collect your rubbish when you were at home to sign for it. The administration costs would be astronomical! Don't worry - this is a non story - it isn't going to happen!

henrya

[speckled wood]

Originally Posted by henrya

- this is a non story - it isn't going to happen!

henrya

I well remember this being said about rail privatisation, don't kid "yourself charge as you throw" is a real possibility and could well happen, but really we have only ourselves to blame.

The borough council where I live is one of two local councils (the other I believe is in Essex)who are already using bin bugs, and there has been much local panic along with stirring from the local press.

[lewisa]

@henrya

It's been happening with some commercial contracts for a while already. The systems and techology is not in question.

I have two contracts, one for general waste that goes to landfill(not weighed), one for shredded paper/card ready for recycling(is weighed)

Quite ironic really, you'd expect it to be the other way round.


On a side note, we did a not-to-scientific study on our waste and it is basically more expensive to have waste collected for recycling than it is to lanfill it. Solving those problems on a national scale is whats really needed, but thats a whole different topic.

[henrya]

No, no, no. Charging for individual households isn't going to happen! It can't. There is no way that it can without astronomical administration costs. If you know how it can be done, explain!

I accept it happens commercially - but I expect you are using commercial collectors who collect when the waste producers are on site.

henrya

[lewisa]

How do you pay for your gas, electricity, telephone, pay-per-view, income tax, national insurance, council tax?

Hmm, well I dont know the ins and outs of it, but I'll attempt to answer how it can be done -

A unique ID is attached to your bin
It is automatically wieghed when loaded into the truck.
SMS technology is used to immediately inform a centralised database how much you have disposed of
A monthly bill is issued

There will be a large cost associated with the capital expenditure in setting the system up, but once up and running there will be very little adminstrative involvement(not counting the collection of monies, thats about the only area requiring serious amounts of administration that I can see)

It seems quite straightforward to me.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by lewisa

How do you pay for your gas, electricity, telephone, pay-per-view, income tax, national insurance, council tax?

Hmm, well I dont know the ins and outs of it, but I'll attempt to answer how it can be done -

A unique ID is attached to your bin
It is automatically wieghed when loaded into the truck.
SMS technology is used to immediately inform a centralised database how much you have disposed of
A monthly bill is issued

There will be a large cost associated with the capital expenditure in setting the system up, but once up and running there will be very little adminstrative involvement(not counting the collection of monies, thats about the only area requiring serious amounts of administration that I can see)

It seems quite straightforward to me.

I think the complications come in if the bins are to be locked, - which presumably they'd have to be? How else then would you prevent your neighbours from putting their rubbish into your bin

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

I think the complications come in if the bins are to be locked, - which presumably they'd have to be? How else then would you prevent your neighbours from putting their rubbish into your bin

From what ive read the councils that have/are issuing the bins to date have not been lockable.

Thats my biggest concern in the system.

Im not sure I accept that the inclusion of locks would cause administrative problems though. The exclusion of them could though.

[speckled wood]

Originally Posted by henrya

No, no, no. Charging for individual households isn't going to happen! It can't. There is no way that it can without astronomical administration costs. If you know how it can be done, explain!

henrya

Having until recently worked for my local council (June 2004 to July 2006), this issue is at the front of the agenda, the main topic at evevy staff briefing is the issue of recycling and how to reduce domestic waste, and the determination that this will be done is there and very real. The issue of admin costs is never mentioned, it simply talked of in the terms that it can and will be done, the issue of knock-on things such as fly-tipping is not taken into account other than the community wardens that are employed by the local council will focus on this issue. Of course the issue that your neighbour might try to put rubbish into your bins is that you yourself, will be expected to stop them from doing this.

[lewisa]

Interesting insight Speckled Wood.

I think their views on the locking issue could be problematic for them in actually seeing this through to completion.

Sort of like systems capable of reducing the speed of a vehicle based on GPS and speed limits by taking direct control of the throttle are having problems addressing the issue of liability in the event of accidents.

Without locks, the liability for the rubbish could be questioned.

[Earth Hart]

I share a bin(green wheely) with the lady in the next flat. I'm forever taking out her whisky bottles & beer cans to put into my recycling box, she likes a drink or two or three. I do leave her food waste though. I've asked her to recycle but she say she can't be bothered. Some people You just can't win

[merlinsboy]

Why is everyone panicking and contemplating yet another "stealth tax"? Because we are the type of people who pay because it is the law. (We may not agree with it tho!)
This story is meant to be aimed at those who do nothing by way of helping the environment. We only have to look outside peoples houses on refuse collection day to see who is making an effort and who is not. My neighbour puts out betwen 8 to 15 bags a week! There is only two adults in this house. Myself and my wife put out 1 bin bag a fortnight.
My neighbours would never think about doing anything to rectify this situation unless they were made to do so.
How do you do that? Education is the ideal way but invariably the only lesson people actually listen to is a financial one. We are back at charging/taxation again. Is the technology available to charge individually? We are led to believe so. Will it educate the people it is meant to without penalising those who are doing all they can? We shall have to wait until definate proposals are presented OR lobby our elected representatives so that legislation will target who it is meant to.
My soapbox has now been vacated!

[Tormentil]

Here we have a green wheely bin (normal rubbish), a brown wheely bin (compostable material), a blue box (paper - except envelopes) and a brown box (tins & glass).

Its a nightmare for colour blind folks.

Seriously, the main bone of contention here is the collection days. The green and brown bins are emptied every other week. i.e Week 1 Green bin. Week 2 Brown bin. Week 3 Green bin. Week 4 Brown bin. etc. etc. (except public holidays, when you may have to wait 3 weeks for a bin to be emptied, if your collection day coincides with them).

The main objection is that waiting 2 weeks for the main (green) bin to be emptied means that cooked food waste is generating a lot of flies. Very off putting when you open the lid and a veritable swarm of 'em come out.

Another thing, the wife she washes out tins, jars and bottles before putting them into the brown box. Is she wasting one resource to save another ??

[eeyore]

and if pay as you throw does camoe in more people will dump their rubbish elsewhere such as in the parks/nature reserves/countryside , leaving charitable bodies to pick up the costs - as has already happened with fridges and car tyres - when willthe govt learn

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

Is she wasting one resource to save another ??

I would say no, it isnt being wasted. The water isnt being consumed, broken down or altered, its going straight back into the ecosystem. Yes, water is a finite resource, but water down the drain is not water wasted - its 'potable' water that is being wasted, but the naturally occuring raw material water is not being wasted.

[Tormentil]

And the billions of gallons that leaks away every day ?? When does that come back into the "system" ??

[lewisa]

When it reaches the water table/zone of intermittant saturation/the aquifer.

It is only a problem if the source water taken is fossil water, as this is too low below the surface to be replenished by natural preipitation.

[littleT]

UK Autos , Citroen Picasso, Ford, Ford Galaxy and others

Spy In Your Rubbish Bin - Unofficial Citroen Picasso

Just a few threads where I've seen some alternative views on these bin bugs.

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

Here we have a green wheely bin (normal rubbish), a brown wheely bin (compostable material), a blue box (paper - except envelopes) and a brown box (tins & glass).

Its a nightmare for colour blind folks.

Seriously, the main bone of contention here is the collection days. The green and brown bins are emptied every other week. i.e Week 1 Green bin. Week 2 Brown bin. Week 3 Green bin. Week 4 Brown bin. etc. etc. (except public holidays, when you may have to wait 3 weeks for a bin to be emptied, if your collection day coincides with them).

The main objection is that waiting 2 weeks for the main (green) bin to be emptied means that cooked food waste is generating a lot of flies. Very off putting when you open the lid and a veritable swarm of 'em come out.

Another thing, the wife she washes out tins, jars and bottles before putting them into the brown box. Is she wasting one resource to save another ??

We have the same problem with our green wheelies though our compostable waste is collected every week and so are the other recycleables. With Bank holidays it's the day after normal collection day

[Lance Morgan]

Originally Posted by merlinsboy

Why is everyone panicking and contemplating yet another "stealth tax"? Because we are the type of people who pay because it is the law. (We may not agree with it tho!)
This story is meant to be aimed at those who do nothing by way of helping the environment. We only have to look outside peoples houses on refuse collection day to see who is making an effort and who is not. My neighbour puts out betwen 8 to 15 bags a week! There is only two adults in this house. Myself and my wife put out 1 bin bag a fortnight.
My neighbours would never think about doing anything to rectify this situation unless they were made to do so.
How do you do that? Education is the ideal way but invariably the only lesson people actually listen to is a financial one. We are back at charging/taxation again. Is the technology available to charge individually? We are led to believe so. Will it educate the people it is meant to without penalising those who are doing all they can? We shall have to wait until definate proposals are presented OR lobby our elected representatives so that legislation will target who it is meant to.
My soapbox has now been vacated!

Stands on vacated soap box and begins to speak....
This is the biggest load of old hype by the media.
This is how it goes..
Councils want more people to recycle or they will get financial penalty. Most of them have left it until the last minute before they get charged for not doing it. The chips are there to weigh the rubbish you put out and if your not doing it there will be some financial penalty further down the line thats a fact. End of story.
Personally i'm glad it has come to this. My family have always recycled. I'm sick of people fly tipping and going to recycle plants in supermarkets that are overflowing with feckless peoples rubbish because they leave it anyway thinking they have done their bit. They'd rather dump it than take it home. We are all responsible for the C**P we buy and the by products it produces. I will say that more pressure should be put on manufacturers to reduce packing material etc or use recyclable materials. Get rid of plastic bags take your own bags.
When are we all going to wake up and smell the coffee. you cannot keep producing waste on the scale we are doing and expect the council to take it away every week.
recycle recycle recycle or pay for the cra* you throw away.

[littleT]

Just curious, What exactly does my council tax pay for???

Property Band C
County Council - £682.69
Police Authority - £148.35
Town Council - £33.03

Seperate to that I pay T.V.licence, Water rates, Elec, Gas, Mortgage, Home ins.

Well the utilies are covered, the town council is Local amenitities such as Library and Leisure.

So that leaves - Schools (if you have kids), Doctors(NHS) and bin collection.

I don't like the idea of paying AGAIN to have my bin emptied.

As I have been told. It will only be if you go over a certain weight each year will you be taxed on the excess. Like most I'm not exactly sure how it's going to work.

Incidentally a friend of mine told me this was going to happen three years ago. It was all supposed to be in place by 2005 - that didn't go to plan did it??

[Lance Morgan]

See my post above. Some councils have left this to the last minute hence tyhe panic now.
Recycle your waste properly and you will not have to pay anything.

[littleT]

Ido, I do!!

I'm just not politically minded and get confused when things like this happen.
I pay my council Tax etc, and not sure what exactly it is that I'm really paying for.
It'd be nice if my council tax bill was brokendown into a more understandable list of where my money is going and what it's being used for.
And if thats not enough, everyone that works and earns pays even more.

If all my money is paying for is bins for this that and the other that aren't being used then its a waste. I'd prefer to make compulsory donations to Nature and conservation.

[henrya]

Several people have made the points about (a) other people filling up your bin and (b) the inevitable increase in flytipping, which according to Speckeld Wood are not being addressed. The other question I have is "are the council going to issue me with bugged bin bags?" Seems to me that that will be very expensive!

henrya