World Population !!!

[southlonder]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Yes, it's obvious that no amount of waste reduction will have any effect if you don't reduce population growth. As nightshade notes, most western countries have falling birth rates - it seems to occur naturally when people are reasonably well fed, housed &c. Unfortunately in other parts of the world - particularly those dominated by religions and with high poverty - populations increase greatly. Only one country, I believe, has tried officially to encourage reduction or at least stabilisation of population. Elsewhere governments bow to religion and 'tradition' .....

India has also tried.
And being PC if we didn't give single mums nice housing, money etc our population would fall and we would be an example to the world.

Regarding religion being responsible the Bible does not say that contraception is bad - it is just the pope.

[Paul mabbott]

India has, at various times, done quite well but it is a large country with a huge starting population and a mixture of traditions as well, of course, as serious poverty.

I take your point about papal infallability but all of the religions based on Mosaic law (Jews, Christians, Muslims and all their offshoots) have the divine, "Go forth and multiply!" as an injunction if they are so minded .... that rather depends on the individual person, tradition, sect, church but it's something that will be difficult to counteract other than by reducing health and poverty pressures by economic means.

Originally Posted by southlonder

India has also tried.
And being PC if we didn't give single mums nice housing, money etc our population would fall and we would be an example to the world.

Regarding religion being responsible the Bible does not say that contraception is bad - it is just the pope.

[Rich_]

Is it the amount of births alone that is increasing the population? Could it be our increasing ability as a species to dodge death that is a contibutor too?

Surgery & medication have increased longevity. You'd have been a villiage elder at 40 a few centuries ago, and child birth alone killed many women, and mother nature dealt brutally as she still tries to when we don't interfere ,with the problem of more people than food in the form of starvation.

[Amoeba]

I think births are still being encouraged, especially in places like the UK, because there possibly could be a serious problem if births didn't stay stable at what they are now. I'm sure most people have heard of the worry about too many retired people, and not enough young folk to look after them or enough employed people to keep the country running, along with other more subtle social problems to do with funding.

Yet still, the cities expand and it gets harder and harder to find green open space that isn't farmland.

While tradition and big families are a problem in other parts of the world (especailly in poverty stricken countries where big families are vital for survival), I agree with Rich_ when it comes to medical care.

It's our instinct to try to save everyone, and in an ideal world one may wish everyone lives healthy and happy until they're 100. But think of all the people that will have died in the past decade, around the world, that were not a result of old age. Imagine if, for a few centuries, most people (for realism sake, let's imagine there are a few unpreventable deaths) who would have died from accidents and illnesses were saved. The over-population worry wouldn't be a worry, it would be a global crisis of epic proportions.

I worry that medical care may be going off in that direction, especially as it becomes available to more and more people. Even in third world countries while it's sometimes poor quality and absent to most, it is starting to become available to more of the population. In places where population is a big problem, there may be an initial stabilization with adequate health care and family planning, but it's still going to be steadily on the up especially as technology advances and more and more people survive who would naturally have died.

The more people there are, the more houses and amenities get built. The more houses and amenities, the more people will be created to fill them. It's human nature. We may feel that in countries with more wealth the population is stabilizing, but expansion and development would suggest otherwise.

I'm not suggesting we do away with healthcare, I don't think I have any right to suggest that since it's dealing with people's lives. It doesn't change my opinion that I think we'd be better off allowing some people to die naturally, and I'll be first to volunteer if I ever end up with a life-threatening illness or injury. I've already made it clear to my friends and family that if it's not something I can overcome without needing a tissue/organ transplant, needing something removed/implanted, or being kept alive and functioning by hormones/drugs/machines/carer, then I'd rather let nature take its course.

Some people are going to oppose me, they have every right and I completely understand why.

My thoughts on how our world will turn out with the population rise (ignoring healthcare) are a little bleak to be honest. I think any attempts to curb the population increase will only put a dent in the rise. Unless every human being on earth thinks the same way (will never happen) there are always going to be breeders who oppose.

I think our population will rise and then crash. It'll crash when deserts have expanded to the point where there isn't even enough fertile land on Earth to feed everyone. I think wars by this time will be common on a global scale. There will be people of 'importance' hiding away from all the chaos. Society will pretty much collapse, and I think we'll be reverted back to a more primitive way of living. After the population crash and wars subsiding due to complete disorganisation and drop in human numbers those who hang on to the remaining technology and power will come out of hiding and try to assume leadership and promise great things to the few "poor souls" still remaining (because, to keep what they have left they need an educated work force). Meanwhile, while the population is still low life on Earth will begin to recover, but it won't be the same again.

Kind of (well, actually is) a mass extinction event.

I don't think that's a definite future. I certainly hope the problem isn't as much of one as we think, but not enough people think about the devastating effect it could bring if it were to happen, nor do many people seem that bothered about preventing it. I guess that's where my hopelessness stems from on the matter.