The Whole Picture

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by PMG

Apologies for repeating myself:
Btw I've watched more than the intro and gone off and found other stuff to look at and think about. Its a little theatrical but its a film and is meant to make a point. I've also listened to the radio interviews with its maker Peter Joseph, watched interviews with the engineers who designed and built the twin towers (there's still a big question as to why the buildings came down in 11 seconds - same speed as a demolition, why the steel core was not left standing) also the plane in the Pentagon the same day - of which no trace was found?? (Not one single peice of plane - anywhere? It all just went up in smoke - poof! Now who's lying?)

Yes it could all be rhetoric, theory, downright lies, misleading, tosh and nonsense - the whole of the internet may be being infiltrated with what the government wants us to think ............ and so on ...........

but I like to keep an open mind - there is something here to think about and decrying someone for doing that and then putting their thoughts together in film is being closed minded........

I don't mind if the whole thing turns out to be a scam and I am proven to be the local village idiot for listening - but I like to arrive at my own conclusions and if I don't see a satisfactory answer to something then I will remain unconvinced until such times as a proper explanation appears ..........

Pauline

The pentagon plane thing is just pure conspiracy theorist propoganda - if there was no single pice of plane anywhere why did the news coverage show a tail plane and the rear end of the fuselage , come to that the families of the passengers had the bodies returned for burial. So are you saying that those families just recieved a coffin full of bricks (doubtful as some corpses were identified by loved ones), or are you saying that all those greiving people were in on this giant government/buisness conspiracy ?

how do you know that the WTC fell at the same speed that it would if it were demolished (as the WTC was not demolished no data exists for how long this would have taken)... the answer again is that we don't know, the 11 seconds thing is again from the same bunch of conspiricay theorists.

and the steel core wasnt left standing because it was a flawed design and the heat from the fire from the burning jet fuel melted some jints and destabilised it - this is widely accepted except by the guy who designed it in the first place and doesnt want to admit he was wrong

Lots of people saw the planes hit the twin towers - are they all in on the conspiracy too - and all the greiving relatives of those passengers too.

I had a freind from college who's brother was on one of those planes - does your remarkable discovery mean we can tell his little boy that daddy isnt dead after all ?

and that is my real point - i'm not decrying these guys for putting an alternate view point , i'm condeming them for causing unnecessary greif and anguish to the families of those who died.

Its bad enough to think that daddy (or mummy , or brother or sister or whoever) has been blown to bits by al quaeda, but its infinitely worse to have people speculating that it may have been his govt that did it, or even worse that he isnt dead at all but in hinding because he was part of some great global conspiracy to cause a war in the middle east.

I can think for myself and draw my own conclusions too - and my conclusion is that this stuff is errant conspiracy theorist rubbish with no grounding in fact or truth.

I also feel that this discussion has no place on a british wildlife website and its a great shame that earth hearts thread has been hijacked by this zeitigiest issue, that being the case i'm not going to argue further.

[PMG]

I wasn't arguing eeyore - I was standing up and airing something I have found out about which I find disturbing and I was well aware that I might get shouted down by someone and quite possibly you might be that someone to bounce up and do it. I hope you feel better now you have quashed my apparent nonsense ........ I must remember to be careful what I say on here in future in case I get another lambasting ...........

I have already apologised for hijacking this thread - perhaps the mods would like to remove it from the point where I said the wrong thing which took it off topic and put it in a fresh thread instead.........

In my defence - if I have one - I went straight from Earth Hearts thread and immediately into environmental issues as versus government as versus big business (the golf course being built on SSSI land springs to mind) and the erosion one way or another of the publics ability - the room to manouvre - to decide what we will and will not allow to be done - to this earth, to other people, to other nations .......... our free will is being taken off us - our choices are being curtailed - our free will and our decisions given to others - we are losing our voices .......... its something I feel strongly about - esp the loss of countryside ........ that's my idea of the whole picture ............

Pauline

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by PMG

I wasn't arguing eeyore - I was standing up and airing something I have found out about which I find disturbing and I was well aware that I might get shouted down by someone and quite possibly you might be that someone to bounce up and do it. I hope you feel better now you have quashed my apparent nonsense ........ I must remember to be careful what I say on here in future in case I get another lambasting ...........

I have already apologised for hijacking this thread - perhaps the mods would like to remove it from the point where I said the wrong thing which took it off topic and put it in a fresh thread instead.........

In my defence - if I have one - I went straight from Earth Hearts thread and immediately into environmental issues as versus government as versus big business (the golf course being built on SSSI land springs to mind) and the erosion one way or another of the publics ability - the room to manouvre - to decide what we will and will not allow to be done - to this earth, to other people, to other nations .......... our free will is being taken off us - our choices are being curtailed - our free will and our decisions given to others - we are losing our voices .......... its something I feel strongly about - esp the loss of countryside ........ that's my idea of the whole picture ............

Pauline

sorry pauline that was more of a general rant rather than aimed specifically at you - afterall you werent the one to post the zeitigiest links in the first place.

and as to you "defence" I accept and even agree with a lot of that - the golf course on SSSI and the political maneuvering that prefaced it was a disgrace, and i agree that our free will to protect the countryside could be removed if we dont stand up and shout. - all of this is very relevant to what EH was saying.

I just fail to see how all this conspiracy theory, 9/11 wasnt terrorists, concentration camps are being built in america guff has anything to do with it. To my mind linking the countrysides defence to this stuff doesnt achieve anything except to undermine our credibility with the general public.

anyway i said i wouldnt argue further and i wont, and if i caused you offence i apologise , i just feel strongly about the whole 9/11 thing because my freinds brother was killed. - best if we agree to differ and let this thread go back to its original subject.

[tufftie]

Ooops - hope i'm not stealing anybody's thunder again but surely as humans and the way we react with each other and Gaia is all part of one big ecosystem? If we didn't ake a good look at the Zietgeist theory then that would be irresponsible too - no matter what we thought of it - what is needed is some contrasting reactions/theories! Eeeyore???

[PMG]

I'm going to say a simple thank you for the apology eeyore - not cos I don't appreciate it - I do - but I don't want to go any further off topic here - I should have started a new thread and posed my thoughts from there. I can understand the rant given your closeness to some of the fallout of 9/11: I'm very sorry about the loss of your friends brother.

Pauline

[Earth Hart]

Honestly you lot, what's all this you've written. I write a piece about what I see & feel about the Planet & its environment and you just get into conspiracies. You really don't give a monkey's for the future. In fact I would say that monkeys are more aware of their environment that you lot are.

[Jez]

Sorry, I really do care!

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Originally Posted by Earth Hart

Honestly you lot, what's all this you've written. I write a piece about what I see & feel about the Planet & its environment and you just get into conspiracies. You really don't give a monkey's for the future. In fact I would say that monkeys are more aware of their environment that you lot are. - mod edited out offensive language

I agree your thread has well and truely being hijacked and can understand your frustration, however I think you've been a member of WAB longer enough to know that your final statements aren't true.

If there is a mod out there can I suggest that this thread is closed an Earth Hart's original post is reposted as a new thread.

BWD

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

I agree your thread has well and truely being hijacked and can understand your frustration, however I think you've been a member of WAB longer enough to know that your final statements aren't true.

If there is a mod out there can I suggest that this thread is closed an Earth Hart's original post is reposted as a new thread.

BWD

I'd concur BWD - I can only apologise to EH for my part in prolonging the hijack - I should have just ignored the hijacking posts, arguing just prolonged the whole thing - will try to do better in future

[tufftie]

Sorry but just for a change I don't agree. Surely anything we put on here is for open debate? One opinion starts another idea etc? There is no right or wrong - all ideas and thoughts are equally valid whether we side with them or not - and personally I'd sooner have a red face from time to time than a brown nose!.

[NickCantle]

Originally Posted by Earth Hart

Honestly you lot, what's all this you've written. I write a piece about what I see & feel about the Planet & its environment and you just get into conspiracies. You really don't give a monkey's for the future. In fact I would say that monkeys are more aware of their environment that you lot are. - mod edited out offensive language

Not the sort of attitude I would expect from someone such as yourself. I think your words are out of line to be honest- With such irrational attitudes like that, maybe 'Mother Earth' was doomed from the beginning.

You know I thought it would be a good idea to refrain from saying that, but I respect the people that have hijacked this thread (not for that reason) and I believe it is wrong of you to say such ugly things about them. The day that forum posts become more important than people is the day I lose interest.

To add, it's nice too see your thoughts in your original post, and I'm always very interested in your thought provoking topics.

[pressld2]

Well said Nick.

Earth Hart, you wrote a piece about what you see & feel about the Planet & its environment and other people's responses were about what they see & feel. And given some of the content of your original post I'm not even convinced that the comspiracy theory stuff was thread hijacking.

In my opinion you're being way too precious about what you wrote, especially considering that there was nothing original or particularly impressive about it in the first place.

Dave P.

[eeyore]

Its a shame we can't all just draw a line and move on from this - least said soonest mended and all that. analysing EH's motivation in posting what he did , or others motivation behind highlighting the zeitigiest movie will do us no good, and likely lead to tears before bedtime.

[pressld2]

You're right Pete - think I need to get myself some of that added tact!

Dave P.

[FungiJohn]

Originally Posted by eeyore

Its a shame we can't all just draw a line and move on from this - least said soonest mended and all that. analysing EH's motivation in posting what he did , or others motivation behind highlighting the zeitigiest movie will do us no good, and likely lead to tears before bedtime.

Line drawn and thread closed

John