Public Transport

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by Mercadante

...I'm sorry, but I can't accept all this stuff about us having no choice and not being able to change the way we live....

I have been reading this thread with a great deal of interest, and can remain silent no longer.

I would suggest that you should refrain from sermonising as to what people should or shouldn't be able to do regarding their driving necessities, until such time as you have taken your own advice and have got rid of your car.

Since, you can't accept that you have no choice, then you obviously do have a choice, and you have chosen to keep your car.

I presume that getting rid of it would be inconvenient for you - but hey, what's a bit of inconvenience, you would be saving the planet.

However, as you keep stressing, you can change your habits if you want to - so why haven't you?

Let me know when you've actually gone green, and I'll engage you in conversation again.

Regards
Mike.

[Mercadante]

Lancashire Lad wrote:

I would suggest that you should refrain from sermonising as to what people should or shouldn't be able to do regarding their driving necessities, until such time as you have taken your own advice and have got rid of your car.

I have not sermonized. I have not advised anyone to get rid of their cars. I have supported higher taxes on cars, and I have paid them.

I have said that it would be good for us to drive less, which I try to - but I have not gone into detail about how, partly because it's very dull, and partly because I don't want to seem to claim moral superiority. But can I not even express the opinion that it would be good if we drove less, until I have attained total perfection myself? That's absurd. Am I not to say I think we should try to be kind to each other, just because I sometimes fail?

There are intelligent arguments for and against congestion charges, but that I do or do not own a car is not one.

[BloomingMarvellous]

It's Blooming Marvellous not having to worry about Car Insurance Car Tax, MOT, Breakdown Recovery, Ware and Tare, Petrol Prices, Parking spaces, Agitated faces... I'd rather Blooming Walk... Can we have some Pavements please.

[Lancashire Lad]

Mercadente wrote: -

Originally Posted by Mercadante

...There are intelligent arguments for and against congestion charges, but that I do or do not own a car is not one.

Mercadente also wrote: -

Originally Posted by Mercadante

...Certainly there are fairer ways of moving away from the car than taxation - like progressively banning it. I'd be very happy with that too, but I don't think any government would dare.

From someone who speaks of what an intelligent argument is, I cannot see much intelligence in wanting a progressive ban on cars, whilst at the same time owning a car and obviously wanting to keep it.

This smacks of "I'm all right Jack - let's have cars taxed to the hilt, but I'm ok I can afford it so I'll still be able to keep mine".

I presume I must be correct, as you seem quite happy to have to pay more taxes for your driving privilege, and you obviously don't want to be rid of your car for environmental purposes, or inconvenience.

Or if I am wrong, you are quite happy to see yourself priced out of car ownership due to higher taxes. Hmm, and the fairies dance merrily at the bottom of my garden too.

Regards
Mike.

[Mercadante]

Yes, I am happy to see myself priced out of car ownership, for all the reasons I've given, and which you have not challenged.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by Mercadante

Yes, I am happy to see myself priced out of car ownership, for all the reasons I've given, and which you have not challenged.

So, despite all your arguments regarding the pollution, dangers to children etc. etc. You will keep your car until you are priced out of ownership.

I rest my case.

Regards
Mike.

[Mercadante]

No, that's half my case you're resting - that people (I am one) can be priced out of driving. My argument is that if we aren't prepared to reduce it in any other way, we should do it that way, because it would be good if less driving were done. Including less driving by me.

You've said nothing against any of that, you've just attacked me, on the (quite unjustified) assumptions that I both own a car and think no one should. You're welcome to think I am a fleet-of-SUVs-owning baby-eater, but it's not an argument against congestion charges. That I am a sinner, and that higher car taxes would help make me behave better, is an argument for them.

[nightshade]

The sensible range of a pushbike for someone working 12 hour shifts twenty miles from nowhere is too limited. Getting up at 4 AM etc. makes a nonsense
of public transport, we need cars

[Jez]

Originally Posted by nightshade

The sensible range of a pushbike for someone working 12 hour shifts twenty miles from nowhere is too limited. Getting up at 4 AM etc. makes a nonsense
of public transport, we need cars

I have done for the last 8 years on 9 hour shifts, 16 miles on a round route. Usually took an hour there and back + I was back before my work college who travelled by car hehe. Still I should have got a trailer!

[Lancashire Lad]

Mercadante,

I am not attacking you, but challenging part of your argument.

People have posted valid and reasoned accounts of why public transport would be an impossible proposition for their circumstances.

Your response: -

Originally Posted by Mercadante

...I'm sorry, but I can't accept all this stuff about us having no choice and not being able to change the way we live even if we want to....

Is a simplistic sweeping statement which shows no apparent understanding of what impact the loss of personal transport would have in such circumstances.

People seldom drive for sheer pleasure these days, (certainly not among my friends and acquaintances), they drive out of necessity, because public transport is currently not a viable option – when the alternative would be loss of employment, and the potential for yet another burden on the state.

You say that I have not addressed your argument for the higher taxing of car usage. I would accept higher taxing readily, if public transport was just as readily available as a viable alternative – but it is categorically not.

As to your reference that I have not made any argument against congestion charge – well, my stance on congestion charge is this: -

It is nothing more than a tax. It is a money grabbing tax on the working man who has no alternative but to commute via personal transport in order to try to earn an honest days pay, and in doing so keep the wheels of industry and commerce turning.

If government were to offer the incentive to people to use public transport be reducing its cost, then I’m sure those people who have the option would be more likely to use it, but like everything else, they use penalty instead, which captures everyone, including those who have no such option.

I repeat, I am making no personal attack on yourself, but only on the simplistic notion that higher taxations & congestion charges etc. are the panacea that will kick start the solution to what is agreed is a major problem.

Regards
Mike.