Environmental poverty

[Tinkerbell]

Having travelled south on one or two motorways and the A38 last weekend I am wondering just when the rot set in in Britain regarding the tolerance of littered highways and residential roads.

Although levels of rubbish was intermittent, with some authorities obviously trying to get to grips with the situation, our major roads have large amounts of very unattractive refuse laying on verges and hanging from trees and bushes in many areas. I thought this was bad enough, but was horrified to see the extent of rubbish laying in gardens and streets in what appeared to be largely local authority estate roads and adjoining land when we reached our destination. Although some folk see no harm in dropping crisp packets, plastic bags etc. anywhere, I cannot believe that all of the residents were responsible for such quantities of litter in their residential vicinity. (Indeed some gardens were virtually litter free). Even a local beck, was absolutely thick with a huge variety of mess, with untold consequences for wildlife.

What I fail to understand is how councils allow the situation to perpetuate. We hardly ever see a street cleaner any more, and when we do it tends to be in the more prominent commercial areas of a town. In years past, even if folk dropped litter it was cleared up regularly by the council regardless of the address.

We eventually abandoned the walk we were taking finding the surroundings too depressing to continue. What must it be like to live amongst such a magnitude of debris and how do you remain cheerful when you step out of your front door to be greeted by such a sight? Environmental poverty no doubt has an effect on our wellbeing too, just as financial and dietary poverty do.

Tinkerbell

[Ukwildlifeo]

My gf inspects the roads and the verdges to check there not about to fall off hillsides etc (lol) and shes told me some of the stuff they find. SHes see loads of cds, fag ends and foos wrappers as people just throw them out as the drive along. She even found a dead Fox in a bin liner!

[Mr Mag00]

i dont remember seeing it like this on the continent! we have very little self respect in this country and a low feeling of worth as a nation, well that how i see it!

[stripee]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

Having travelled south on one or two motorways and the A38 last weekend I am wondering just when the rot set in in Britain regarding the tolerance of littered highways and residential roads.

Although levels of rubbish was intermittent, with some authorities obviously trying to get to grips with the situation, our major roads have large amounts of very unattractive refuse laying on verges and hanging from trees and bushes in many areas. I thought this was bad enough, but was horrified to see the extent of rubbish laying in gardens and streets in what appeared to be largely local authority estate roads and adjoining land when we reached our destination. Although some folk see no harm in dropping crisp packets, plastic bags etc. anywhere, I cannot believe that all of the residents were responsible for such quantities of litter in their residential vicinity. (Indeed some gardens were virtually litter free). Even a local beck, was absolutely thick with a huge variety of mess, with untold consequences for wildlife.

What I fail to understand is how councils allow the situation to perpetuate. We hardly ever see a street cleaner any more, and when we do it tends to be in the more prominent commercial areas of a town. In years past, even if folk dropped litter it was cleared up regularly by the council regardless of the address.

We eventually abandoned the walk we were taking finding the surroundings too depressing to continue. What must it be like to live amongst such a magnitude of debris and how do you remain cheerful when you step out of your front door to be greeted by such a sight? Environmental poverty no doubt has an effect on our wellbeing too, just as financial and dietary poverty do.

Tinkerbell

I have noticed a big increase in the last few months in rubbish on road side verges on small country roads. One road I use is very quiet and yet is getting more and more stuff on it. I have seen van men eating their lunch in their vans, presumably take aways of some kind and then I suppose they chuck the rubbish out of the window. Also kids on the way back from school. It is definitely getting worse and worse. I wonder why cars and vans can't have a rubbish bin inside them, it's always difficult to know where to put it, and often it ends up on the floor. Also round here there is alot of plastic sacks etc from farms. Perhaps takeaways and snacks should have less packaging or be taxed for the environmental damage they cause.

[tufftie]

It has an effect on our well being because it's depressing to see - not only for aesthetic reasons but because we're aware of the harm litter causes wildlife and the environment. It's a couldn't care less attitude that shows total lack of respect for anything. While obviously the councils should be clearing it up - to a certain extent it's about re-educating people so that they learn to have more respect for the environment and stop littering.

[pressld2]

Originally Posted by tufftie

While obviously the councils should be clearing it up - to a certain extent it's about re-educating people so that they learn to have more respect for the environment and stop littering.

Spot on, Tuftie! Councils doing more means higher council tax bills - for everyone, not just the litter louts and fly-tippers. And while I would be prepared to pay more for a cleaner environment there is something very unpalatable about spending my money to clean up other people's mess. Education is the long-term solution and, in the meantime, rigorous enforcement of the law and serious punishment of offenders. If chucking the burger box out of the window was likely to result in 50 hours community service cleaning up verges maybe they'd think twice.

Unfortunately littering is seen by many people, including police, magistrates and even the media, as a "trivial" offence. Until that changes nothing will improve.

Dave P.

[ron1863]

There is nothing worse than seeing poly bag trees, and the worse point is that they are not all wind blown, loads are hung from trees with dog excrement inside by so called animal lovers.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by Mr Mag00

i dont remember seeing it like this on the continent! we have very little self respect in this country and a low feeling of worth as a nation, well that how i see it!

You should visit Romania/hungary. I saw plenty of 'beauty spots' and river full of rubbish..

[Wild-Woman]

Nothing is more infuriating than seeing a car, lorry, truck, coach, whatever, window being wound down and sweet wrappers, burger boxes, drink containers being ejected out by the driver or one of the vehicle's occupants. It's just about as scummy as a person can get.
They're never caught and if they are, the penalties are pityful.

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Another problem that happens where I live is that the council insist that the rubbish and recycling bins and boxes are put out before 6am. Obviously many people put them out the evening before, regardless of the weather conditions. The recycling boxes we have, have a very loose fitting lid, in fact someone sneezing is quite likely to blow the lid off every box in a half mile radius. So you can imagine that with winds we had last week our neighbourhood was covered with litter, and in many places still is. Education is one answer but frankly if people don't have the common sense in the first place what’s the point. Harsh penalties are all very well, but if the councils haven't got the money to spend on street cleaners they certainly haven't got the spare cash to spend on Bobbies.
It isn't the right answer but it's down to us, the people that do care, to start picking litter up and educating others, and contacting the council where rubbish is building up and fly tipping has occurred.

BWD

[demicav]

I've noticed more and more rubbsh in grass verges, it's been getting me down for a while. Some of the areas are without pathways so people are obviously throwing it out of car windows. It's just so lazy and irresponsible. It makes me really angry.

[watsthat]

Originally Posted by demicav

I've noticed more and more rubbsh in grass verges, it's been getting me down for a while. Some of the areas are without pathways so people are obviously throwing it out of car windows. It's just so lazy and irresponsible. It makes me really angry.

This subject really depresses me. The problem appears to be nationwide and nothing is being done about it. In a way we are all partly to blame because of the lifestyle we demand. Consumerism with its ever expanding succession of new gadgets, cleverly marketed to keep us on the hook, ensuring more packaging to dispose of and old gadgets to dump. IMO most of the plastic strewn through the hedgerows, (isn`t hawthorn brilliant at catching it), comes from lorries transporting waste from place to place. Since the privatisation of local council services lots of corners are cut to make sure that profits are maintained. Some time ago I was behind a very big waste lorry, its load retaining net barely covering the waste, with the consequence that plastic in all shapes and sizes was steadily being blown from the container, onto the sides of the road. This went on for about 15 miles and the driver seemed oblivious. I noted the name of the company and the vehicle registration. When I got home I rang the said company, the police and the environment agency and was basically fobbed off by the lot of them. There is also a significant sub-culture of misguided, uneducated individuals, who seem totally ignorant of their surroundings and the results of their actions, i.e. littering, dog muck, bad driving, loutish behaviour..... I`ll stop there.

Pete

[hobble]

I walk the same stretch of road most days throughout the year. It is from Easter onwards that I notice an increase of litter on the road. I can only put this down to some holiday makers coming down to Cornwall.
The beach in summer also becomes a dumping ground, people think if they bury rubbish in the sand it's gone??????
Or leaving broken plastic buckets on the beach.
What really get's me is Mc Donalds rubbish when I live 10 miles away from them.
Last summer a young lad chucked his empty can of coke into the river and I shouted at him to get in the river and put it in the bin. He did.
He was really embarrassed.

[Mercadante]

This is a constant problem where I live in Cornwall. Whenever I walk to local shops I take a trug with me and fill it with rubbish from the sides of the road, which I then put in our bins. The most common things I find are: plastic drinks bottles, crisp packets, sweet wrappers, cigarette packets, aluminium drinks cans, plastic carrier bags.

Some of these things weren't made in the past, in anything like the numbers they are now. If plastic drinks bottles weren't manufactured, people would manage without them again - taking thermos flasks with them on trips, for example. And if sweet wrappers were still made of paper or waxed paper, and cigarette packets were made just of plain cardboard without cellophane wrappers, they'd be much less of an environmental nuisance.

Sometimes people suggest charging us for the rubbish we throw away, as a supposed 'green' solution. I'm not well off, so if that came in, I'd have to stop clearing up other people's rubbish. But it is surely not the people who are putting rubbish exactly where it ought to go who should be charged! It is the people generating it in the first place, as well as those not throwing it away properly.

I think we should start penalizing the manufacturers, both through taxes and through not buying their stuff.

[hobble]

I agree Mercadante,
I try to avoid buying anything which has excessive packaging, even If I might like the contents.
When taxes are introduced for the amount of waste we produce I am sure these packaged items will be thought about before their purchase.

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Originally Posted by Mercadante

This is a constant problem where I live in Cornwall. Whenever I walk to local shops I take a trug with me and fill it with rubbish from the sides of the road, which I then put in our bins. The most common things I find are: plastic drinks bottles, crisp packets, sweet wrappers, cigarette packets, aluminium drinks cans, plastic carrier bags.

Some of these things weren't made in the past, in anything like the numbers they are now. If plastic drinks bottles weren't manufactured, people would manage without them again - taking thermos flasks with them on trips, for example. And if sweet wrappers were still made of paper or waxed paper, and cigarette packets were made just of plain cardboard without cellophane wrappers, they'd be much less of an environmental nuisance.

Sometimes people suggest charging us for the rubbish we throw away, as a supposed 'green' solution. I'm not well off, so if that came in, I'd have to stop clearing up other people's rubbish. But it is surely not the people who are putting rubbish exactly where it ought to go who should be charged! It is the people generating it in the first place, as well as those not throwing it away properly.

I think we should start penalizing the manufacturers, both through taxes and through not buying their stuff.

I agree with you 100% The government is so lame at the moment, why can't they just ban plastic carrier bags instead of the "we will give shops a year to cut down on handing them out" No just ban them. Whats wrong with reusable bags or paper bags. Why don't the supermarkets reuse the cardboard boxs any more. And while we are on the subject lets get rid of plastic bottles as well and use glass ones with a 50p or £1 deposit on them. I'ld be quite happy for the litter louts to leave them in my park so I could get some money back. Why when it works in other countries will our government not force the hand of the big retailers, oh I remember it's the big retailers that fund the government

[Susie]

We seem to be quite fortunate around here that there isn't a huge amount of rubbish around but what I do notice a lot of is fly tipping in country lanes. Sometimes is is just a couple of plastic bags full and other times it must be a full van load.

Obviously the blame for the fly tipping lays squarely with the idiots that do it BUT I do blame the council for making it so difficult for people to take stuff to the dump and for making our weekly collections of general rubbish so small. For example, if you want to go to my local dump at the weekend it is guaranteed that you are going to have to queue for a fairly long amount of time, obviously if you go in a commercial vehicle you are going to have to pay a fee too. In addition to this they use vehicle number plate recognition cameras so if you go too often you could be in trouble because they may think you are using it for trade purposes on the quiet. All this equals hassle and we all know that most people will go for the easiest option ... hence the fly tipping.

[Blackbrook Eye]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

And while we are on the subject lets get rid of plastic bottles as well and use glass ones with a 50p or £1 deposit on them. I'ld be quite happy for the litter louts to leave them in my park so I could get some money back.

The problem with glass containers, with or without deposits, is that they still get thrown away and invariably break, causing immediate danger to all in the vicinity, including grown ups, children, animals both wild and domestic and if on the highway can cut vehicle tyres to ribbons, it is difficult to see what can be done about people who have no regard for themselves or anything else. It depresses me too, but it seems like the problem isn't going to get any better until parents start to show a good example to children and are held responsible for their actions and at the same time smartening up their own act.

[Mercadante]

Blackbrook Eye wrote:The problem isn't going to get any better until parents start to show a good example to children and are held responsible for their actions and at the same time smartening up their own act.

If you mean we cannot hope to improve things before there's a spontaneous mass conversion, I strongly disagree. We can encourage people to behave decently, without first persuading them that they ought to, by making good behaviour easy, and bad behaviour expensive. And people are much more easily persuaded that a thing is bad, once they've stopped doing it themselves.

[Tinkerbell]

I agree with you Mercadante, with respect to taxing the manufacturers and the purchasers of these items - but any money raked in should be used to clean up the environment.

With regard to education, I can tell you from first hand experience that speaking to an adult does not necessarily bring about change. One excuse given was 'I just don't see it'. If a parent can't see their own rubbish, what chance their kids?

Tinkerbell

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

I agree with you 100% The government is so lame at the moment, why can't they just ban plastic carrier bags instead of the "we will give shops a year to cut down on handing them out" No just ban them. Whats wrong with reusable bags or paper bags. Why don't the supermarkets reuse the cardboard boxs any more. And while we are on the subject lets get rid of plastic bottles as well and use glass ones with a 50p or £1 deposit on them. I'ld be quite happy for the litter louts to leave them in my park so I could get some money back. Why when it works in other countries will our government not force the hand of the big retailers, oh I remember it's the big retailers that fund the government

No Billy - not glass - please not glass!! Every morning on early shift we litterpick - all the horrible stuff folks have left during the night..........

At the moment brushing up glass is minimal - vodka and cheap wine bottles usually - but if all bottles were glass again - we would be knee deep in smashed glass and I for one would be handing my notice in ...............

Litterpicking plastic bottles is reasonably easy - all that glass - Nooooooooooo

Pauline

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Originally Posted by PMG

No Billy - not glass - please not glass!! Every morning on early shift we litterpick - all the horrible stuff folks have left during the night..........

At the moment brushing up glass is minimal - vodka and cheap wine bottles usually - but if all bottles were glass again - we would be knee deep in smashed glass and I for one would be handing my notice in ...............

Litterpicking plastic bottles is reasonably easy - all that glass - Nooooooooooo

Pauline

I agree broken glass is so dangerous. Maybe I'm been a bit stupid in my thinking here, but surely if the people who drop/leave there plastic bottles had no choice but to buy glass bottles and knew they would get a 50p or £1 back on them they wouldn't drop them. Or is that me living on my own happy perfect planet again

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

I agree broken glass is so dangerous. Maybe I'm been a bit stupid in my thinking here, but surely if the people who drop/leave there plastic bottles had no choice but to buy glass bottles and knew they would get a 50p or £1 back on them they wouldn't drop them. Or is that me living on my own happy perfect planet again

Please spread your perfect planet around!!

I hate to pee on your parade bwd but even it was a £5 back per bottle - once the contents have gone down their throats then smashing the bottle seems to be inevitable: as does ripping up trees, plants, kicking down fences, sett