Loss of Community Spirit.

[tufftie]

Not on here but... and i wasn't quite sure where to put it either! (that was rhetorical!)

Always seems such a shame to me that we've lost our community spirit - mainly due to a desire for profit, albeit on a subconscious level. Even our education system works with profit in mind: Educate yourself properly and get a high level job and....be able to afford the luxury items many people have come to accept as normal. The education system dosn't work because it treats pupils as a homogeneous mass rather than individuals. Subjects are not taught in a way that encourages learning - learning is an individual thing and what works for one wont for another...the education system is too structured in this way. There should be a greater choice of subjects and pupils encouraged to find a way of learning that they enjoy - no-one really learns a subject they don't enjoy.

There are many kids round here that are shown love by way of gifts; material things rather than learning that it's the thought that counts not the ridiculously expensive gifts that some parents give them (all out of fad a few months later). They are taught to view their peers by their clothes and possessions rather than the person within.

The youngsters treat old folk with disrespect because most are now in homes rather than being part of the community as a whole (down to people not having the time to look after them as they are too busy making money to pay their over large mortgages). This is not good for anyone; not good for the old folk because they feel cast off and of no use to youngsters because they can't benefit from the advice and care they would receive from them. A community must incorporate people of all ages and then respect will follow.

We simply don't have time for anything anymore - be it nature or the community as we live at such a hectic pace and it's very sad.

[naturelover]

hi tufftie you feel like me they are my thoughts exactly,i for one have looked after my family,i had my dear mum for seven years and i know she loved every day with me and my husband,she was also in a wheelechair so i took her out as much as i could,she passed away in 2000,we now have moved to march cambridgeshire and we took my husbands dad with us,as he is all we have left of our parents,he is now 93 and i am you might as well say his carer,as he just canot do things for himself any more,if more familys were like they were years ago, there wouldnt be the need for all these run down old peoples homes,and alot of the abuse would stop.

[tufftie]

Originally Posted by naturelover

hi tufftie you feel like me they are my thoughts exactly,i for one have looked after my family,i had my dear mum for seven years and i know she loved every day with me and my husband,she was also in a wheelechair so i took her out as much as i could,she passed away in 2000,we now have moved to march cambridgeshire and we took my husbands dad with us,as he is all we have left of our pearants,he is now 93 and i am you might as well say his carer,as he just canot do things for himself any more,if more familys were like they were years ago, there wouldnt be the need for all these run down old peoples homes,and alot of the abuse would stop.

It's a shame more people aren't like you I was in a similar situation to you - gave up everything to look after my father for about a year before he died (back in 1993). Had a fill in job in a home, when i was younger, i was shocked - at that age it hadn't occurred to me that they were there to make a profit. Just shocked me that they gave them tablets to keep them quiet and just let them sit there looking at each other like zombies! they hardley ever had visitors. as for the abuse...

[Susie]

It does make me sad that there are people who don't respect others and who only live for material things but are then not satisfied with them when they get them BUT for the rest of us who do respect our elders and do our bit to help our communities when we can there is no reason why life cannot be as rich and fulfilled as it ever was.

[agrumpycow]

Originally Posted by tufftie

Had a fill in job in a home, when i was younger, i was shocked - at that age it hadn't occurred to me that they were there to make a profit. Just shocked me that they gave them tablets to keep them quiet and just let them sit there looking at each other like zombies! they hardley ever had visitors. as for the abuse...

I have to chip in and say that that kind of home it the exception rather than the norm and I'm shocked that you're lumping all homes into that statement.
I have worked in care homes all my working life, for the elderly and for those with learning disabilities and the vast majority of people I have worked with work far more hours and put so much in over their contract to help those in need of care enjoy their life as much as possible.
No-one is ever medicated just to keep them quiet, any difficult behaviour is dealt with using techniques which are learnt through getting to know the individual and through nationally recognised methods which are proactive rather than just sedating people.
There is no profit in residential care, infact many homes are making a loss. The Commission for Social Care Inspection inspects all care homes regularly and that kind of practice would be seen. My husband reported the owners of the care home he was managing for mishandling money. He lost his job as the company closed but didn't regret it for a minute.
I'm sorry you felt the need to say what you did and I would encourage you to go back and research a bit more before making such emotive comments, especially at this time of year when families are so important.

[Seajay]

I agree with Agrumpycow - it is totally unfair to lump all homes into a category of mis-management and abuse. The vast majority are well run and run by extremely caring and hard working people and as she states rigorous inspections are undertaken to ensure all is well and improvements made. To those who have managed to care for their elderly relatives themselves then you deserve a medal as it is no easy task but many are unable to do so for many reasons.
That said on the original subject - yes I agree there is a definate loss of community spirit compared to say the forties and fifties when 'nobody had owt'.
Now most have everything except love, respect and kindness to those about them. Most certainly very sad, in my opinion.
One of the best ideas I heard was to do ten acts of kindness and get the recipients to do ten acts of kindness to others in return, coupled with respect for others perhaps we might have the answer to many problems?

[agrumpycow]

[quote=Seajay;213587]That said on the original subject - yes I agree there is a definate loss of community spirit compared to say the forties and fifties when 'nobody had owt'.
[quote]

I don't know what everyone else thinks but I personally feel a lot of the loss of community spirit is fuelled by the media. People see a 'hoodie' and think thug. The news if full of stories of gangs and stabbings. Parents are too scared to let their kids play outside so they stay indoors and aren't socialised, and yes I know that's a horrible word and probably not the right one. I don't know, I just feel that sometimes kids are acting out the role sort of expected of them, if that makes sense. A society of mistrust and fear.

[tufftie]

Hey folks - i only mentioned that about one home (i worked in back in the 80's) - not all of them (in a direct reply to naturelover). Not at all in the original post!

My point was unless there is some real reason our old folks should not be in a home, they could be looked after. Homes are needed if there is no-one or due to medical conditions but if it's just down to money. If my old dad was alive now and needed looking after - the house with mortgage - car (not got one but..) they'd all go so that i could look after him. Also it would be good for youngsters...and i agree with agrumpycow too - the media has a lot to answer for.

[naturelover]

hi tufftie sorry i got you into trouble,you and me have the same views on this subject,how i look at it they gave up a lot to bring us up,going without this and that so why shouldnt we repay them for all those years,when you think of it i have been looking after someone in my family for must be 10 years now and i dont regret a day,ok i have a moan off to my self now and then who wouldnt,but i wouldnt have it any other way,i have tryed to make the years they have left happy years and let them know they are wanted and loved.

[Susie]

You're a lovely person, Naturelover. If more people were like you the world would be a better place.

[naturelover]

thankyou so much susie,i just do what comes naturally.

[tufftie]

Originally Posted by naturelover

hi tufftie sorry i got you into trouble,you and me have the same views on this subject,how i look at it they gave up a lot to bring us up,going without this and that so why shouldnt we repay them for all those years,when you think of it i have been looking after someone in my family for must be 10 years now and i dont regret a day,ok i have a moan off to my self now and then who wouldnt,but i wouldnt have it any other way,i have tryed to make the years they have left happy years and let them know they are wanted and loved.

no you didn't - they didn't read the posts properly and took offense where none was intended! You're doing a great job - would be lovely if there were more people like you. I know a few but not many Was going to pm or email you but you haven't got a link - feel free to email me and if you need an ear always there for you. know what it's like and some times you need it!

[zan]

I reckon the world is becoming rather more 'introverted' than perhaps it used to be? With so many toys and games now being computer\TV based, maybe it's true that children don't go out so much to play. Having said that, I grew up in the 80s-90s and I spent as much time around Glasgow playing in go-karts, climbing (and falling out of) trees, playing in the local parks etc etc etc... and we weren't scared of being outside. It's a shame the mind-set is now so different that people are afraid of letting their children go out in the streets.

As for young people being branded as thugs, I suspect much of the criminal activity reported is because they are bored and haven't got better things to do. Bringing communities back together could probably solve a lot of problems - neighbours being neighbourly, and giving everything something they can be proud of. I haven't got a clue how this could be done though!

I haven't yet had to deal with relatives needing care, which I am incredibly thankful for, so I can't say anything about that.

Anyway, these are just my rambling thoughts on the subject! Hope they're not too waffling

Zan

[nightshade]

It is very sad no one speaks anymore few people are truly neighbourly,
just nosey, TV and the Car, local jobs disappearing,old folk in homes
all contributory factors.I feel particularly for the youngsters that everyone
ignores,particularly the politicians.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Lack of community spirit in a more general public theme is down to how and where we live nowadays.

Formerly, entire families lived in the same village for generations and everyone knew everyone else. Life centred around work, which was usually in the same village, and social interaction was conducted in places like the pub, church, and over the garden fence, etc.

Today, youngsters can barely afford to buy their own homes and are clobbered by Inheritance tax and the likes and the majority cannot afford to buy a property in the place where they were brought up, if they were brought up in one place and had not moved home more than once in their childhood.
Work is generally a commute to another town or even county.
Socialising in the old sense has become a lost art with people talking to just family and close friends at best. How many people can name the people who live in the five houses either side of them? Not many I bet.

The only time I come across what could be called community spirit in a non-profiteering sense of things is when people jouin to gether to protest against a development that is likely to affect them. Even that dies a death once the development has been dropped/completed.

Sounds like a sad world I'm painting but generally it's true with just a few silver-lined clouds. I can only see it getting worse as well what with all the extra housing and competition for jobs and the almost ghetto like culture of some foreign groups that make little effort to integrate with the local community other than their own. Then again perhaps we could learn something from them and reinstate our own local communities.

Here's the first small step. Start saying hello in passing to people in your street. It's surprising how contagious it can be.

Cheers,

Adam

[agrumpycow]

People who look after elderly relatives, like you Naturelover, do a fantastic job. My hubby and I moved in with my father-in-law a couple of years ago to look after him at a time when he really needed support and it wasn't easy for any of us. My mother cared for her parents and now cares for her partners father and it really is a fulltime job and I salute all those who do it.
Tuftie - I did read the posts properly and I didn't take offense, just felt that your post could potentially upset someone whose family member in in a care home, and I quote: 'as for the abuse...,' particularly at this time of year and I felt I had to reply, I hope I didn't offend you or naturlover either!
It would be nice if everyone was in a position to care for relatives but unfortunately that isn't always the case and on some occasions people are actually happier and better cared for in a home.
I also know and have known a lot of elderly people who don't feel that their offspring should be obliged to care for them. I also agree this shouldn't always be the case.
There are so many different situations, beliefs and considerations that it really is impossible to have a decent discussion in this medium without it becoming another thread like the Badger culling one!!!

[naturelover]

hi tufftie that is very kind of you,but i get through, dad in law is quite a pussy cat as long as the grandchildren dont come round,then its moan moan moan trouble is he is victorien and he exspects the children to sit still and be quiet,that i am afraid dont happen now, kids will be kids,but he will not come up to date,you cant change a tigers stripes.

[ChrisJB]

The current situation I do find very sad. I'm 35, but the whole fabric of our village has changed so much for the worse in my lifetime.

I think the main reason here is the expansion of peripheral, sprawling housing estates. Since these were built, the village has become a dormitory settlement for many people who work in Manchester, Leeds and Bradford. Most of their time is spent outside the village, at work, or in the pursuit of leisure activities. For plenty our village is just a place to sleep.

I despair at what it has become.

As for schools, yes education in this country is a joke. The Primary curriculum is saturated with Literacy and Numeracy (what happened to English and Maths?), whilst Geography and History are often crudely lumped together as 'Topic' lessons. Staggeringly, despite this, I'm constantly horrified at the levels of illiteracy and total disinterest in books in todays schools.

And, in the university holidays, I also used to wash pots in local old folks and nursing homes. My memories of them are decidedly unpleasant too. I'm sure in many today, the residents are treated with respect and dignity, but from personal experience they weren't. They just seemed to be shouted at all the time. But, I suppose, if you pay peanuts......

Well, end of rant! But I just had to get some things off my chest!

Regards, Chris

[ron1863]

Originally Posted by agrumpycow

I have to chip in and say that that kind of home it the exception rather than the norm and I'm shocked that you're lumping all homes into that statement.
I have worked in care homes all my working life, for the elderly and for those with learning disabilities and the vast majority of people I have worked with work far more hours and put so much in over their contract to help those in need of care enjoy their life as much as possible.
No-one is ever medicated just to keep them quiet, any difficult behaviour is dealt with using techniques which are learnt through getting to know the individual and through nationally recognised methods which are proactive rather than just sedating people.
There is no profit in residential care, infact many homes are making a loss. The Commission for Social Care Inspection inspects all care homes regularly and that kind of practice would be seen. My husband reported the owners of the care home he was managing for mishandling money. He lost his job as the company closed but didn't regret it for a minute.
I'm sorry you felt the need to say what you did and I would encourage you to go back and research a bit more before making such emotive comments, especially at this time of year when families are so important.

Well Put.
I worked for the N.H.S. as a Ward Manager for thirty years in the Learning Disabilities sector and saw nothing but kindness shown to our residents.
I also did some part time work in a local Private Nursing Home but would disagree with you there as my impression was that making and saving money was their main aim. I only worked there for a few months but had to leave as I did not agree with their standard of care, they were not breaking the law or being cruel but they certainly didn't go out of their way to offer their clients any little luxuries or staff the home properly.

[tufftie]

Originally Posted by ron1863

Well Put.
I worked for the N.H.S. as a Ward Manager for thirty years in the Learning Disabilities sector and saw nothing but kindness shown to our residents.
I also did some part time work in a local Private Nursing Home but would disagree with you there as my impression was that making and saving money was their main aim. I only worked there for a few months but had to leave as I did not agree with their standard of care, they were not breaking the law or being cruel but they certainly didn't go out of their way to offer their clients any little luxuries or staff the home properly.

Ron, as i said earlier this was taken out of context - it was mentioned once in a direct reply to naturelover - it was about one home and not a generalisation. I also realise that under certain circumstances it's not possible to look after someone at home.

The whole thing was about community spirit - not picking holes in old folks homes - maybe i haven't expressed myself very well or something but if you read it any other way you misunderstood me! It's about all the issues that make up the picture - not just old people but tuition, fiscal things, pace of life all sorts! I imagine someone will be able to express this better than me but...

[stripee]

Residental homes have varied quite a lot in my experience with elderly relatives. I think overall they have improved, but it is always wise if you have a relative in one to make sure they are happy.

I don't know about the past having more community spirit, on the whole people will help each other now if they know there is a need, although modern life is very busy and families and friends can live a long way off from each other. But there was always social breakdown in big cities in previous centuries, and some of the villages would have been a bit suffocating if you were stuck in them, and there was a less comfortable lifestyle.

[tufftie]

Has anyone read A Handmade Life by Bill Coperthwaite (about this as well as making things). Also 2 books by John Lane: Voluntary Simplicity and The Spirit of Silence? All three are very interesting if you get the chance.

[Wightman]

An interesting topic. When I grew up the community was made up of mostly people that knew each other, or knew people of their families. These days it's more intergrated with families coming from different countries, and the government expecting them to intergrate without any problems. Is this possible? As for children, how can they learn respect when their parents have none. It seems to me that young people are taking longer to mature these days, and don't like facing responsibility.