Non native mammals

[starlight]

Can anyone tell me why, if its an offence to release a non native eg. crayfish etc.
Then why do I keep seeing on animal rescue tv programmes the grey squirrel being cared back to health and released?

Is it now classed as native or what, it seems a real contradiction in terms and Im confused

[Dogghound]

Good question. perhaps due to squirrel being more fluffy. Eitherway they are a big threat to native species just like signals and Mink etc.

[mh68]

I`m fairly sure its illegal to release grey squirrels unless the law concerning this has changed recently?

Mark H

[mh68]

Found the following on the DEFRA site....

Under the Destructive Imported Animals Act 1932 (as amended) certain non-native mammals may only be kept in captivity under the authority of a licence.

Section 8 of the Act permits the issue of special licences to keep:

* Mink (Mustela vison),
* Coypu (Myocaster Coypus)and
* grey squirrels (Sciurus carolinensis)

for exhibition, scientific research or other exceptional purposes. Guidance on applying for a licence is given below.

Please note that it is an offence under section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (as amended) to release or allow to escape into the wild grey squirrels, Mink and Coypu without a licence

So,it appears that Greys CAN be released if the appropriate licence is granted,although circumstances under which such licences are granted isnt mentioned on their site.

Mark H

[Dan Salter]

Blimey!...had never thought about this one...that Simon Cowell from wildlife rescue should be due a life sentence by now?

Excellent point raised starlight!...cant wait to start rows at uni with this one ...ammo for a nature nazi indeed.

[CurreHound]

This is a difficult on that requires much more sensible handling and debate than the current simplistic legislation.

I still can't get my head around that it is okay to kill grey sqirrels, Coypu , or cull Badger in huge numbers, but the same goverment say it immoral to hunt Fox and Mink with hounds.

What about Rabbits then?They aren't native so are the government going to cull all of them?
getting a bit myxie lately perhaps they are.

Personally I think as long as anaimals are carefully managed unless they are proven to be devastatingly harmful to native spcies then exterminating them all is an over reaction. To me its better approached with traditional management. I still want to know how in some woodland greys and reds co exist. I still think the habitat changes have more to do with Red Squirrel populations diminishing than
the grey.
Anyway I am certainly not going to cull greys and will offer them assistance if in need.
However I would be delighted if some crappy organisation like the RSPCA got done for it. Mind you, from what I can see from the approx 100 000 animals they kill each year a lot are wild so DON'T appear to be re released; allegedly. I guess its cheaper to kill than cure.

Unless an area cleared of greys is going to be replaced by reds with a breeding programme it seems utterly pointless to treat them so badly. Certainly in most towns killing greys is now pointless. If has has been suggested the cause is grey to red viral contamination then maybe they ought to work on the virus. Mind you, expcting a society that doesn't want to work on viral causes of cancer in humans because it can raise more revenue by pretending smoking causes everything is hardly going to try to help squirrels.

As for Mink leave the Mink hounds to deal with them IMHO. That controls them without exterminating them. They are there because of animal rights lunatics releasing them from fur farms; and I have seen Mink in action. However you can't blame them; they are just doing what nature intended. Viciously beautiful killers.
Incidentally what happened to all the Mink our glorious animal friendly governemnt saved from being badly treated on fur farms? I suppose they are all in happy little government sanctuaries now are they?
I had been to some of those farms incidentally to sketch Mink. They were not cruel at all...far from it. The husbandry there was very good. Sadly for Mink the politicians think them politicaly incorrect.

Government should just keep their oar out of wildlife management altogether; domestic stock and wildlife.
Anyone who thinks that the DEFRA killing teams are better than hunting needs a wake up call that is for sure. Yep some of us can remember them lining up three cows to try to save bullets. I know it had to be done...but the way in which it was done by a so called animal friendly government was apalling and so I certainly don't trust them anywhere near grey squirrels or Mink.

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by CurreHound

However I would be delighted if some crappy organisation like the RSPCA got done for it. Mind you, from what I can see from the approx 100 000 animals they kill each year a lot are wild so DON'T appear to be re released; allegedly. I guess its cheaper to kill than cure.
.

Would be interested to hear an attempted justification of your opinion of the RSPCA currehound?
Doug

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by The Black Rabbit

Would be interested to hear an attempted justification of your opinion of the RSPCA currehound?
Doug

Perhaps its related to the fact the RSPCA stated Fox hunting with dogs should be banned.

As for why its ok for to cull Mink and grey squirrels, its because there extremely destructive to native animals - Mink especially to water fowls and nesting wildfowl and grey squirrels bad news for nesting birds and Red Squirrels.
Badgers should not ve culled based on the scientific evidence. Rabbits are a not native but now play an important role maintaining grasslands and providing food for buzzards foxes etc.

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Sorry, Mink should be trapped and shot end of story, IMHO. They may be nice to look at but they are distroying out river wildlife. I watched a programme the other night called "Water Vole - life on the edge". It was awful to see the Mink killing all the wildlife on the river.

Trap and shoot, trap and shoot

BWD

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

Rabbits are a not native but now play an important role maintaining grasslands and providing food for buzzards foxes etc.

Spot on with that, by taking away Rabbits you would take a large chunk of the foodchain for a dependant group of animals.

[Dan Salter]

Before this thread slides into the usual "killing or not killing this that or the other" lets remember starlights excellent point raised was about the "re release" of grey squirrels.
She didnt mention Fox hunting, Badger snaring, Mink shooting?...

[starlight]

Thanks Dan, it seems to have touched a few nerves and maybe rightly so. There is so much controversy about everything raised......

However, it was Simon Cowell's programme that made me raise the initial question. So its seems strange how can certain groups can obtain a license to release grey squiggles? They are a non native pest, though I wasn't aware that reds and greys are living peacefully somewhere?

Maybe I should email Simon and ask him directly

[Dan Salter]

Originally Posted by starlight

Thanks Dan, it seems to have touched a few nerves and maybe rightly so. There is so much controversy about everything raised......

However, it was Simon Cowell's programme that made me raise the initial question. So its seems strange how can certain groups can obtain a license to release grey squiggles? They are a non native pest, though I wasn't aware that reds and greys are living peacefully somewhere?

Maybe I should email Simon and ask him directly

Just make sure its the right one otherwise he may tell you "Quite frankly you are awful...you cannot sing and you look terrible"

[CurreHound]

My opinion of the RSPCA has nothing to do with their opposition to hunting.
I expected that.

My opinion of the RSPCA is practical exprince. Go on, ring them if you come across a distressed wild animal. They ask if you are going to pay. Then they come and get it and most likely destroy it. People in the country call the vet if they can't deal with themselves.

Quite simply I object to an organisation who raises money to protect animal culling them in vast numbers. Write to them and ask for the numbers. They will admit it. Many of them are wild.
I acknowledge they do have a problem, because if they say release a swan into the wild again after treating it for a broken wing then it fails to survive it could be a problem that could come back and bite them on the ass. But some animal charities never destroy a healthy animal and I would prefer that.

here will be a surprise to many of you about the wonderful PETA:
Shocking New Crime-Scene Photos

all those millions they make and that is what they do.

And they only kill a fraction of what the RSPCA does.

So anyway, it would be interesting to see what the RSPCA does with animals like grey squirrel. I am also stunned that they never say anything about the rat holocaust either. Because there is nothing more cruel to animals.

[Adam Cheeseman]

In a similar vein, what about all those Canada Geese that get cared back to health and then re-released by wildlife centres, etc. Same law being broken, different species, and these aren't cute and cuddly.

Cheers,

Adam

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by CurreHound

My opinion of the RSPCA has nothing to do with their opposition to hunting.
I expected that.

My opinion of the RSPCA is practical exprince. Go on, ring them if you come across a distressed wild animal. They ask if you are going to pay. Then they come and get it and most likely destroy it. People in the country call the vet if they can't deal with themselves.

Quite simply I object to an organisation who raises money to protect animal culling them in vast numbers. Write to them and ask for the numbers. They will admit it. Many of them are wild.
I acknowledge they do have a problem, because if they say release a swan into the wild again after treating it for a broken wing then it fails to survive it could be a problem that could come back and bite them on the ass. But some animal charities never destroy a healthy animal and I would prefer that.

here will be a surprise to many of you about the wonderful PETA:
Shocking New Crime-Scene Photos

all those millions they make and that is what they do.

And they only kill a fraction of what the RSPCA does.

So anyway, it would be interesting to see what the RSPCA does with animals like grey squirrel. I am also stunned that they never say anything about the rat holocaust either. Because there is nothing more cruel to animals.

In my experience the RSPCA are completely disinterested in wildlife. In 15 years as a countryside professional I have never once managed to get them to attend a situation. I don't bother with them anymore. If I can catch whatever the creature is I take it to the local wildlife sanctuary (but only if it is a human induced problem e.g. fishing tackle and swans.)

[mh68]

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

In my experience the RSPCA are completely disinterested in wildlife. In 15 years as a countryside professional I have never once managed to get them to attend a situation.

I`ve heard the same so many times.Independant wildlife sanctuaries are a different thing altogether and do a sterling job in the main.These organisations have my full respect, the RSPCA sadly dont.

Mark H

[starlight]

Well thats done....I will post Simons reply when I get it.

Yes Dan, it was the right Simon.......and I cant dance, cant sing, look awful. I'll go a long way

Currehound......that link is awful, I didnt realise half of what happens. Though I do watch a lot of American animal stuff. The truth is somewhat different.

I have taken a baby Rabbit once to the RSPCA, they nursed it then rang me to ask where I had hit it (with the car). I told them "On the head".....she said "No, whereabouts on the road so we can release it"

Adam....please correct me if Im wrong, I thought most Canada geese migrated. Although yup, I do see a lot all year.

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by CurreHound

My opinion of the RSPCA has nothing to do with their opposition to hunting.
I expected that.

My opinion of the RSPCA is practical exprince. Go on, ring them if you come across a distressed wild animal. They ask if you are going to pay. Then they come and get it and most likely destroy it. People in the country call the vet if they can't deal with themselves.

Quite simply I object to an organisation who raises money to protect animal culling them in vast numbers. Write to them and ask for the numbers. They will admit it. Many of them are wild.
I acknowledge they do have a problem, because if they say release a swan into the wild again after treating it for a broken wing then it fails to survive it could be a problem that could come back and bite them on the ass. But some animal charities never destroy a healthy animal and I would prefer that.

here will be a surprise to many of you about the wonderful PETA:
Shocking New Crime-Scene Photos

all those millions they make and that is what they do.

And they only kill a fraction of what the RSPCA does.

So anyway, it would be interesting to see what the RSPCA does with animals like grey squirrel. I am also stunned that they never say anything about the rat holocaust either. Because there is nothing more cruel to animals.

Cheers for that Currehound.
I asked because I only have very limited experience of the RSPCA.
I have only ever called them out ONCE in my life - to a coot that was in a real discussion with a fishing line - and I couldn't reach it.
That ONE experience ended with 2 officers arriving on scene within the hour and freeing the coot.
Pretty darn good to me. For my ONLY experience of the RSPCA.
Limited experience I know, but there you go.
Cheers
Doug

[Dan Salter]

My view on the RSPCA is they are much more pet based or farm type stuff...the only seem interested in cases where they can advise owners or prosecute people..I.E neglected horses...people with ragowort in fields, abused dogs...flats with a hundred cats...that sort of thing.
I think you need to look to more "wildlife" based rescue centres and sanctuaries like Simon Cowell has for things like, Hedgehogs, damaged wild birds, poorly deer etc. ...just my opinion.

[coasty]

RSPCA ,,,,hummm supported by cat and dog lovers who couldnt give a stuff for the rest of the animal kingdom,,,,

[ron1863]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

Sorry, Mink should be trapped and shot end of story, IMHO. They may be nice to look at but they are distroying out river wildlife. I watched a programme the other night called "Water Vole - life on the edge". It was awful to see the Mink killing all the wildlife on the river.

Trap and shoot, trap and shoot

BWD

Well said.

We have Mink on our river and they are devastating the bird life by breaking their eggs, even though they don't eat them all. Mink don't just kill to eat they appear to kill for the sake of it.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by starlight

Adam....please correct me if Im wrong, I thought most Canada geese migrated. Although yup, I do see a lot all year.

Hi Starlight,

In North America, where they are native, the majority do. Apparently more and more of them over there are giving up migration because they are taking advantage of being fed on municipal lakes etc.

In Britain, 99.9% are resident descendants of introduced ornamental birds. We do get a very small handful of genuinely wild migratory Canada Geese turn up each year, usually in Scotland. These are normally of the smaller races such as Cackling Canada Goose or Richardson's Canada Goose.

Cheers,

Adam